"Most of these subjects and the opinions muslims have of them show very very very clearly: Most Muslims eighter dont understand what democracy and pluralism is.
Or lie when asked about what they think of democracy."

TGAC: basically saying that any Muslim who is pro democracy is lieing or doesn't understand it because Muslims can never be pro-democracy "fact"!




To be a Muslim or against the crimes of Israel means you are an anti Semite?

Seriously, another MAASSIVE leap of the imagination there. Reminds me of a bigoted immature religious person who says "you can't be a moral person cos you're a stinking atheist!!"
- low and just show's your abandonment of the facts (which you show plenty of - just not related to denocracy: really just mud slingin mate). It's you who is the bigot here and the more you talk the more it comes out...


"Choke on foreskins"
Lewl.

If a massive poll shows that 80% of MORROCCO are pro democracy and think it can work for them - then you just say "they are lying and don't understand democracy"...

Face palm mate - seriously!

You want your cake and you want to eat it but if you don't accept that millions of Muslims can be and are pro democracy - you're just diggin a ditch and no amount of potty mouthed insults an denial of PEW forum statistics can avoid that.

80% of MORROCCO 'stupid or liars' cos TGAC says so....

What freakin racist m8

(March 18, 2013 at 2:25 am)Dawud Wrote: TGAC: basically saying that any Muslim who is pro democracy is lieing or doesn't understand it because Muslims can never be pro-democracy "fact"!

Yeah! Cause if one claims to be "pro democracy" and at the same time thinks that Islam should play an importent role in goverment and politics, that people who leave islam should be executed, that women should be stoned and all the other babaric savage stuff that muslims love that much to do - then these people dont understand pluralism, let alone democracy.

Quote:To be a Muslim or against the crimes of Israel means you are an anti Semite?

Naa I just predicted it!!! I actualy should have bet some money on it!!! I was a 100% certain, that at some point you would start eighter bashing on the Jews or on Israel!

You could have talked about Sri Lanka, Tibet, Kashmir, Ost Timor, or any other crisis point of this planet.

But the muslim must of course insist that he has an opinon on Israel and that Israelis are criminals.

I am not suprised and expected it, cause yours is the religion of antisemitism, and it because of YOU and YOUR PEOPLE that antisemitism has been on the rise here in Europe recently, because you brought your disgusting views on how the jews are to blame for everything with you from your desert!

Now! Show these crimes of Israel! Voice your opinion to it`s right to exist! And voice your opinion on zionism! Only by doing that you can show that you are not one of these jewhating morons which make up the mayority of the muslim world.

Quote:Seriously, another MAASSIVE leap of the imagination there. Reminds me of a bigoted immature religious person who says "you can't be a moral person cos you're a stinking atheist!!"
- low and just show's your abandonment of the facts (which you show plenty of - just not related to denocracy: really just mud slingin mate). It's you who is the bigot here and the more you talk the more it comes out...

You posted the very statistics which show that antisemitism is widespread amongst jews, and you were the one who started talking about israel.

Because as a muslim - you must talk about israel - because as a muslim you just hate jews and have to use every single opertunety to voice it.

I am pritty convinced that you are an antisemetic lowlife, because surveis clearly show how antisemitism amongs todays muslims is even more widespread than 70 years ago in nazi germany.

if not - then prove it!

Quote:If a massive poll shows that 80% of MORROCCO are pro democracy and think it can work for them - then you just say "they are lying and don't understand democracy"...

Yes! Because if at the same time they are for amputating a thiefs arm, stoning women and other such savage islamic things - then they dont understand democracy!

Quote:Face palm mate - seriously!

HAVE YOU EVEN READ A SINGLE DAMN THING I HAVE WRITEN!!!!!

Quote:You want your cake and you want to eat it but if you don't accept that millions of Muslims can be and are pro democracy - you're just diggin a ditch and no amount of potty mouthed insults an denial of PEW forum statistics can avoid that.

I NEVER!!!! said the muslims are unable to have democracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This! is the last time that I will accept such dishonesty from you!

You can eighter stop putting words into my mouth - or deal with the consequences which follow such behavior yourself!

Quote:80% of MORROCCO 'stupid or liars' cos TGAC says so....

Na you dishonest cunt! I never mentioned Marrocco!

But let ius take a look at what Marroccans think:

http://www.pewglobal.org/respondents/morocco/

88% of Marroccans are antisemite

yet most marroccans arent for sharia.

So I guess democracy has a better chance in Marrocco but pluralism does not.

Now, I have mentioned Marrocco , you dishonest piece of shit!

Quote:What freakin racist m8

I am absolutly not racist, you on the otherhand are probably and antisemite and supremisist just like most of your people!

(March 17, 2013 at 10:34 am)EGross Wrote:

Wow you really love posting that image over and over don't you? Why don't you make it your signature, here ya go, here it is reduced to the proper size for ya:

So you see the millions of Muslims in Morocco who are pro democracy.

You admit that Muslims can be pro democracy - I.e. to be Muslim doesn't mean you are anti democracy.

I'm glad you have come to this more sophisticated understanding.

As for the rest of your silly-ness I'll focus on your accusation of me being an anti-Semite sand show how that is wrong.

But you'll have to wait a little . I'm sleepy - cos I've been working hard in my beautiful democratic country - paying tax and the like!

---

Assuming I hate Jews was just textbook bigotry btw

(March 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm)Dawud Wrote: So you see the millions of Muslims in Morocco who are pro democracy.

You admit that Muslims can be pro democracy - I.e. to be Muslim doesn't mean you are anti democracy.

I'm glad you have come to this more sophisticated understanding.

AGAIN! You are putting words into other peoples mouths! I never said that muslims couldnt be in favor of democracy!!! STOP being so completly dishonest!!!

Quote:As for the rest of your silly-ness I'll focus on your accusation of me being an anti-Semite sand show how that is wrong.

But you'll have to wait a little . I'm sleepy - cos I've been working hard in my beautiful democratic country - paying tax and the like!

I thought so, because you cannot prove it! I am certain that you are a antisemite, just like most muslims!

Quote:Assuming I hate Jews was just textbook bigotry btw

Absolutly not! Since statistics show that most muslims are antisemetic, my assumtion was very well justified!

I don't even know what this thread is about anymore....

Not to spoil the all the fun but...

It would be nice to see TGAC address some of the points that apophenia raised on the previous page, instead of getting into a capslock shouting match with Dawud.

(March 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: I thought so, because you cannot prove it! I am certain that you are a antisemite, just like most muslims!

What a strong faith you have young Jedi!

I'm glad you don't accept that all Muslims are against democracy.

Lets just hope you can maybe try to base your accusation that I am an anti-Semite on present evidence and not just take me as an anti-Semite without checking: bigotry as you're probably aware being such an AMAZING BRAIN! xx

(March 18, 2013 at 3:24 pm)Dawud Wrote:

(March 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: I thought so, because you cannot prove it! I am certain that you are a antisemite, just like most muslims!

What a strong faith you have young Jedi!

I'm glad you don't accept that all Muslims are against democracy.

Lets just hope you can maybe try to base your accusation that I am an anti-Semite on present evidence and not just take me as an anti-Semite without checking: bigotry as you're probably aware being such an AMAZING BRAIN! xx

It was you who first mentioned"Jews" and it is you who spoke of Israel in a negative way, so I will not be suprised if very soon you will be talking about "appartheit state" and "evil zionist conspiracies"

Anyway, could your dumbass finaly start adressing the actualy arguments I made! Instead of focusing on small pieces where you can fart arround your useless bullshit!

You seem to have absolutly no idea how a debate actualy works!

---

(March 17, 2013 at 4:05 pm)apophenia Wrote: I think you're extending the definition in the direction you want it to go, but only because it serves your specific interests.

No I am not. A sociaty in which various different ideologies are represented yet only one dictates the political decision or several are excluded cannot be pluralist.

Quote:By that definition, the United States is not a pluralistic society, and the bulk of its people are anti-pluralistic, as the question of equal rights for women has been put to the vote several times and defeated each time.

It doesnt matter what the people may think of pluralism - fact is that they remain in a pluralist framework. I am pritty certain that woman in the US have equal rights on paper - yet that the reality looks different - this does not mean that the US is not pluralist because the framework has not been shattered through this.

Quote:However, I will say a couple things before I bow out of this discussion. Certainly, I acknowledge that I am ignorant about the world, political philosophy, and history, so I grant that I may be amiss in relevant concerns. However, to me, this argument is twofold. First, what is pluralism, and more generally, what is the nature of politics in a world which is de facto pluralistic if not de jure pluralistic. Clausewitz said that war is the conduct of politics through non-political means. If we abandon the means of political discourse, the remaining tool in our arsenal is war. This is what resulted in the death of nearly 3,000 people on September 11, 2001. One side or the other abandoned proper social and political discourse to resolve their differences and resorted to the politics of war. The question of integrating Muslims is not just an immigration question, it's a global one. What are you suggesting for the pluralism of our world society? That we deport all Muslims to another planet? Or perhaps we should simply make the middle east a plain of glass, because they threaten our worldview. I say no. I realize it's not as efficient as bombing them or deporting them, but you as a German should know intimately that the efficiency of disposing with a problem population is not in and of itself a virtue.

I clearly pointed out what my views were and you seemed to have overlooked them on purpose.
People who live in a democratic and pluralist sociaty - yet reject it`s values and prefer a violent overthrow of the sociaty they live in shouldnt be allowed to live in that sociaty or should be excluded from participating in such.
As for now, here in Germany, several communist and neo nazi groups which have attempted to overthrow their pluralist sociaty have been banned and their members sentenced to jail time.
European democracies are built on a certain set of values, rejecting these should automaticaly mean that one rejects ones right to participate in that sociaty.
And in the case of immigrants - it is a political reality that people who travel to germany and who then spread antidemocratic sentiment are deported. This has been done with several individuals (especialy from militant communist groups) before and should also be done with radical clerics and salafists.

By using the word muslim you indicate that I am associating antidemocrtatic sentiment with the entire muslim population. Which I am not. But statistics clearly show that amongst the muslim population it is a mayority which reject democratic principles.

Quote:My second question has to be, how are you going to implement an immigration policy aimed at reducing the inflow of anti-pluralistic Muslims into your country? What are you going to use as a litmus test for whom to admit and whom to reject? "Are you a Muslim?" "Assuredly not! Insha'Allah!" Are you going to deny immigration from certain countries on the basis of the politics of the majority there? In addition to seeming to run quickly to racial profiling, many times an immigrant from those nations is immigrating to escape from that. Your attitude to that is what? Sucks to be them? Indeed, since Muslim regimes are some of the most oppressive, you may very well see a strong correlation between Muslim hegemony and immigration because of that reason. And what about those who are refugees, say in Darfur, who are fleeing not because of Muslim oppression, but because of other oppression? Do we turn our backs on the people of Darfur because they come from a predominately Muslim nation? Or do we differentiate between the countries composed "mostly of good Muslims" and "mostly of bad Muslims" ? Exactly whom are you targeting here, Germans, and how do we identify them?

I dont have to. Because it is already in place. When arriving here without visa the first thing conducted is a backgroundcheck with the help of the embessy. If found to be a antidemocratic radical you are allowed to live here without citizenship with the obligation to report to the police once a day and not allowed to leave the district in which you live. - that is, if it would be to dangerous to deport you back - because of the possibility of torture or other actions that might be undertaken against you, which would violate your human rights.

If you emigrate to this place and you start showing radical antidemocratic or criminal sentiment or undertake such action, you will be first held accountable in court for the actions you may have taken, and after serving the sentence one is deported back to the country of origin, if that is not possible due to human rights issues - the rules mentioned above apply.

Quote:Exactly how is this "send them back to where they came from" policy going to work? Are we going to deport people for being fanatical Muslims? Simply Muslim? For speaking out in favor of Sharia law? What exactly is the list of thought crimes going to include? If they break laws, send them to jail, or worse. But I get the impression you want to attack a much larger group of people, and we don't need additional laws to punish actual law breakers, and if we do, that's a separate matter. And it raises the very real question of why we would want to punish Muslim lawbreakers differently from non-Muslim lawbreakers. And I'm gonna add another Godwin for this one, but it's hardly surprising that this comes from the citizen of a country that has made it a crime to disagree with the majority view of the history of the holocaust and speak one's mind about it. Maybe when Germany becomes truly pluralistic you might have some grounds to bitch.

No, my point was (as I stated in the very beginning) that muslims shouldnt be treated differently, simply because they are muslims. I do not see a difference between a salafist demanding sharia law and organising violence, and a fashist demanding the overthrow of the democracy, a communist organising violence, or foreign terror groups collecting funds. Yet those always find themselves punished acording to the laws of the land, whilest muslims always seem to be excluded from this due to the fact that they are muslims and the authorities fear being seen as racist.
And it is something which has been done here for a very long time, foreign supporters of terror groups have always found themselves in a plane back to their country of origin.

Quote:Not the rapist should be punished but the rape victim, when she hasnt dressed apropriatly in islamic tradition.

omg can you get more stupid than this