Quote:the wages of sin is death
all die
harsh enough?
what happens after that you will have to convince yourself

What happens after that is pretty straightforward based on the words of god himself. Eternal punishment for finite 'crimes'.

(March 26, 2013 at 9:11 pm)missluckie26 Wrote:

Quote:the wages of sin is death
all die
harsh enough?
what happens after that you will have to convince yourself

What happens after that is pretty straightforward based on the words of god himself. Eternal punishment for finite 'crimes'.

you have been given a certain number of days to repent of your rebellion.
after that, the judgment.
whats the matter?
isn't reassuring to know the likes of hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot, all serial killers and rapists, both known and unknown, will be tried for their crimes in the world beyond?

(March 27, 2013 at 12:17 pm)junkyardboy Wrote: isn't reassuring to know the likes of hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot, all serial killers and rapists, both known and unknown, will be tried for their crimes in the world beyond?

I have said before, this is the crux of alot of people religious beliefs: That all those that wronged you are to be punished.

The thought of a vicious murderer, a rapist, a child molester, dying without punishment raises people's anxiety, but believing a god as a cop-out is hilarious.

I think those more trained in psychology can really identify what I'm talking about. It is too bad the enthropy of he universe isn't complacent of our 'feelings'.

(March 27, 2013 at 12:28 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(March 27, 2013 at 12:17 pm)junkyardboy Wrote: isn't reassuring to know the likes of hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot, all serial killers and rapists, both known and unknown, will be tried for their crimes in the world beyond?

I have said before, this is the crux of alot of people religious beliefs: That all those that wronged you are to be punished.

The thought of a vicious murderer, a rapist, a child molester, dying without punishment raises people's anxiety, but believing a god as a cop-out is hilarious.

I think those more trained in psychology can really identify what I'm talking about. It is too bad the enthropy of he universe isn't complacent of our 'feelings'.

it is appointed for man once to die, and then the judgment.
judgment for all awaits.

(March 27, 2013 at 12:31 pm)junkyardboy Wrote: it is appointed for man once to die, and then the judgment.
judgment for all awaits.

So I guess you're done arguing then? You've just given up?

Let me ask you this: what happens to the murderer or the rapist who repents and gets saved?

And in the reverse, what happens to the kind hearted, charity minded atheist who doesn't?

(February 19, 2013 at 5:02 pm)EGross Wrote: I like it that Sam Harris will often take the term "God" and replace it with "Zeus", which makes the sentence sound stupid because most people don't want to worship Zeus, but God? Ahhh...

Zeus was way cooler than jesus.

I couldn't live without God. God is my best friend. I can assure you that God is real. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will opened to you. God is real, if you have any questions, PM me. I will write 25 pages if you want. It isn't a problem. Send me what you are curious about.

The Christian faith is true, I want all of it to be true, the mercy, the judgement, the person of Christ. I love God. God saved me and gave me hope that there was more in the world than money and getting a job and pleasure and living an empty life. God has given me meaning and opened my eyes to the wisdom of God. It is really amazing how many good things have come to me through God's agency.

Seek and you will find. It is not wrong to long to be with God. God puts that in people.

But you must respond. Don't be weak. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.


As for the wars and problem of evil, the world is in a state of evil because people have resisted God. They are no longer under the blessing of God, so that now sin affects the course of the world. That is why there are wars, because people fight to control the world. God did not cause all the bad things to happen, but now that they happen, God does punish sin. God is not more severe in God's ways than most governments in history, who have punished some crimes severely, but nevertheless are just and fair.

There really is no philosophical problem of evil. God simply is not required to act in history the way that people would want God to, and if God did, what would happen is the end of the world, because so many things would change that people would cease to have free will and the kingdom of God would come.

Something to think about. Life is complicated.

(February 18, 2013 at 5:53 am)pop_punks_not_dead Wrote: I know this sounds dumb,I am an atheist, but part of me still wants to have some form of belief, that there is a God out there and there is more to existence than this life I have been dumped with.

But then I see what religion has done to the world , it has caused wars, suffering repressed people like me so I can't bring myself to accepting there is a god when I see the state the world is in.

What kind of God would allow the boxing day tsunami to happen? To allow HIV to become a pandemic? To let little kids be born in dire poverty?

These are the most basic questions we atheists find ourselves asking, and when the vast empty void of silence is all that answers us we find ourselves asking more and more questions. You're in a transitional phase of atheism. It's the darkest point, too, as I recall, hell I only just got out of it a couple years ago. And I still actually am hovering at the edge of it. The longing for there to be something more, for eternity, for an endless life, for a loving father-figure waiting to embrace us after our deaths and to walk us into a realm of pure unadulterated unimaginable happiness and contentedness is a strong one, and its allure and its reasons are obvious. It's the last great fairy tale of our lives. The last bit of fantastic wonder, before we must open our eyes to the howling, dark chaos of the universe and accept reality for what it is. But once you stare death in the face for a while, he stops being so scary. And then he stops being a concern, and eventually you just come to accept his presence and learn to live your life so as to appreciate what you have before death has to take you away.

It's a painful experience, but in the end, rewarding and liberating for those who find the ability to overcome their terror of, and learn to accept and even enjoy, the unknown.

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: I couldn't live without God. God is my best friend. I can assure you that God is real. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will opened to you. God is real, if you have any questions, PM me. I will write 25 pages if you want. It isn't a problem. Send me what you are curious about.

yeah... you keep telling yourself that. Say it enough times and you'll become convinced of it....wait, you've done it already!!

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: The Christian faith is true, I want all of it to be true, the mercy, the judgement, the person of Christ. I love God. God saved me and gave me hope that there was more in the world than money and getting a job and pleasure and living an empty life. God has given me meaning and opened my eyes to the wisdom of God. It is really amazing how many good things have come to me through God's agency.

hmmm, how many have? and which?

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: Seek and you will find. It is not wrong to long to be with God. God puts that in people.

Or people put that in people and then think it was some extra-terrestrial divinity.

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: But you must respond. Don't be weak. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.

I won't let anyone talk me out of it... if your god does exist and has presented itself to other people (not through wanting, but presented in a physical form), as is recorded in your holy book, then I expect the same treatment. Is it too much to expect?
Why must must I delude myself before I accept the existence of the delusion?

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: As for the wars and problem of evil, the world is in a state of evil because people have resisted God. They are no longer under the blessing of God, so that now sin affects the course of the world. That is why there are wars, because people fight to control the world. God did not cause all the bad things to happen, but now that they happen, God does punish sin. God is not more severe in God's ways than most governments in history, who have punished some crimes severely, but nevertheless are just and fair.

The wars... god itself helps win some wars, according to your holy book. If the guy's involved in wars, why would the evil of wars in the world be solved by this god?
I wouldn't expect it to be so...

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: There really is no philosophical problem of evil. God simply is not required to act in history the way that people would want God to, and if God did, what would happen is the end of the world, because so many things would change that people would cease to have free will and the kingdom of God would come.

How do you account for the free will of the people in the holy book's stories? Moses?... he met god, hence had no free will, so.... no kingdom of heaven for him. The same goes for Abraham, the apostles... heck, everyone!
Now, why must I believe the stories that were written about these people, instead of having equivalent experiences?
Why is it all done in such a way that, were the stories man-made/imagined, nothing would be required to change in the physical world we have around us?
Why must I delude myself that god exists before I have any experience of this god?
Why are all current "experiences" of the divine so camouflaged and mental that the only rational explanation for them is "man-made/imagined"?
Why, if god presented itself to some humans, can't it present itself to all humans?
Why, if god presented itself to some humans in one way (J.C, for example), did it present itself to other humans in a different way (e.g. Mohamed), giving rise to different religions and all the hardship and war those have brought on the world?

(March 28, 2013 at 1:23 am)jstrodel Wrote: I couldn't live without Allah. Allah is my best friend. I can assure you that Allah is real. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will opened to you. Allah is real, if you have any questions, PM me. I will write 25 pages if you want. It isn't a problem. Send me what you are curious about.

The Muslim faith is true, I want all of it to be true, the mercy, the judgement, the person of Mohammed. I love Allah. Allah saved me and gave me hope that there was more in the world than money and getting a job and pleasure and living an empty life. Allah has given me meaning and opened my eyes to the wisdom of Allah. It is really amazing how many good things have come to me through Allah's agency.

Seek and you will find. It is not wrong to long to be with Allah. Allah puts that in people.

But you must respond. Don't be weak. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.


As for the wars and problem of evil, the world is in a state of evil because people have resisted Allah. They are no longer under the blessing of Allah, so that now sin affects the course of the world. That is why there are wars, because people fight to control the world. Allah did not cause all the bad things to happen, but now that they happen, Allah does punish sin. Allah is not more severe in Allah's ways than most governments in history, who have punished some crimes severely, but nevertheless are just and fair.

There really is no philosophical problem of evil. Allah simply is not required to act in history the way that people would want Allah to, and if Allah did, what would happen is the end of the world, because so many things would change that people would cease to have free will and the kingdom of Allah would come.

Something to think about. Life is complicated.

This and more in the Quoran!

Now, strodel, prove the edited quote incorrect.