(March 30, 2013 at 11:12 pm)Tex Wrote: DON'T EVER EVER EVER USE KJV!!!

It's garbage. Total garbage.

As opposed to every other differently interpreted version of god's supposed infallible word that has been retranslated from dead languages a million times and reinterpreted a billion more times to suit the different opinions of people who are not sheep?

I rather like the KJV, that and Youngs.

Mr Infidel Wrote:As opposed to every other differently interpreted version of god's supposed infallible word that has been retranslated from dead languages a million times and reinterpreted a billion more times to suit the different opinions of people who are not sheep?

I'd think that evolution of language would be something that every atheist would believe in...

I'd also think that the languages death would be beneficial to the original text, seeing as Koine Greek and Latin now cannot change meanings of words and make the originals unknowable.

On top of that, the same debates that are going on now in Christianity are the ones that went on right when it started too. The Arians = Jehovah's Witness. The Pentecostals and Swedenborgians = Sabellianism/Modalism. The majority of the world = Corinth. The only notable exception to this is the Mormons. They're new. The only one that isn't going on right now that has already happened is the Albigensian movement (they wouldn't have kids because that would be bringing a person into the sinful world. Ironically, they died out).

(March 31, 2013 at 12:43 am)Tex Wrote: I'd think that evolution of language would be something that every atheist would believe in...

On top of that, the same debates that are going on now in Christianity are the ones that went on right when it started too.

Evolution of language is one thing. Reinterpreting and retranslating, and in the end only choosing the version you like over that which you dislike is not to be compared with language evolution.

And each year man becomes smarter and rejects the notion of that which is supernatural. It will only be a matter of time before Christianity burns itself out and wanes to become the minority. That would be the evolution of religion.

I don't deny that Christianity will wane and a new prejudice develop against it, one that is already forming. I deny that we're wrong. You attack people who make different English versions, but fail to see other possible intentions of people, such as making a translation that is easy for less informed as apposed to something very literal, but very difficult. Even if we all spoke Hebrew or Koine, there would still be factions!

(March 30, 2013 at 11:12 pm)Tex Wrote: If the words completely and totally change the meaning, its important. While this isn't like a hot=cold blatantly misleading, the difference is "God created Evil (the opposition to Good came from God)" and God created evil (the stuff we don't like that people deal with during they're lives). My God is responsible for mental illness, for hurricanes, for pain and suffering of all kinds. All my God. And those things are not good. "Creates evil" can be really misleading, especially for today's English because...

@Joel

... the kings English was really romanticized and decorated to make the brand new English translation look better than the Latin. The people of the 16th century didn't speak middle English, but they imitated it anyway when translating. They were not concerned with philosophical implications nor holding to the meaning of the text. They got the gist of it, wrote it down, and bedazzled the thing. So, what I'm trying to say here is...

DON'T EVER EVER EVER USE KJV!!!

It's garbage. Total garbage. If you want something decent and is easy to read, NIV 1984 is great (the 2011 has a lot of gender neutral stuff that isn't as accurate, but is also good). I use ESV, but the text is choppier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOqHHE4upY

(March 30, 2013 at 8:48 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is omniscient and omnipotent, this is the very reason satan's powers are limited. Satan is no threat to God himself, however if satan was not restrained he would have long ago destroyed humanity.

GDQD Wrote:So, what's the reason why Satan has powers at all?

Lucifer was created with great powers, if you had ever read the Bible you would know this. Lucifer was originally an archangel, actually the highest of all angels.

GC Wrote:When God created the universe there was no evil, evil was never created. Evil came into existence with Lucifer's disobedience to God.

GDQD Wrote:God created Lucifer knowing in advance precisely what he would do and why he would do it. Therefore, God created evil. It was not an accident.

God did create Lucifer and He knew what Lucifer would decide to do, that still doesn't mean God desired evil to become a part of creation.
Answer this please, if you have a child and that child becomes a murderer does that make you a murderer? The way I see your reasoning you are, and should have to serve the same punishment your child does.

GC Wrote:Love and truth were never created, they are part of who God is, they have always existed. Anything that's against who God is, is evil ie. sin, so evil came through Lucifer with his disobedience to God, satan has spread this evil ever since.

GDQD Wrote:It must be hard rationalizing all this nonsense.

If it were nonsense I would have nothing to do with it, as far as rationalizing, what the Holy Spirit reveals makes it easier to understand.

GDQD Wrote:God is omniscient, too. He knew that creating Lucifer would result in evil. It is, therefore, his fault and no one else's. Lucifer, after all, is just a creation. It cannot act in any way God did not want or intend for him to act.

See the above answer with the child. Lucifer had free will to choose his future, he was so blinded by self he could not rationalize he wouldn't be able to defeat and over throw his Creator.

Gc Wrote:God does not nor ever did want evil to be, He does allow it to exist to prove to creation that love, truth, obedience and ect. are greater than evil.

GDQD Wrote:God allows evil to exist. Thanks for settling that matter. Why he does it is irrelevant. He does it and it is not necessary, therefore, he must desire it. If he wanted to prove that love and truth conquers evil, he could just eliminate evil. That would be damned convincing.

Did you actually read your above statement, irrelevant, God had every reason to or He would not have allowed it. We do not know all the reason He did, but here's one big reason, free will. If allowing evil was irrelevant, then how could we know the difference between love and evil, He will be putting and end to it when evil runs it's coarse through humanity and God says enough. really did you read your statement?

GC Wrote:So it's not wanted by God, but it will be judged by Him, and a complete end will be put to evil.

GDQD Wrote:Someday, right? For now, it's necessary that people rape and kill each other. The only reason he doesn't put a complete end to it, right now, is because he enjoys it. There is no point to evil. It serves no purpose (indeed, it goes against God's purpose).

In His time. It's not necessary for people to kill and rape, people choose to do it through free will, the fault belongs to the one's who choose to do evil things. You say there is no God, then how do you explain the evil men do without Him, you say there's no purpose for it.

GDQD Wrote:Do you ever wonder why some of us think Christians are crazy or brain-dead? How do you even believe the shit you say? How does that register as logical?

I wonder how it is you guys are so blind. What you think of me doesn't matter.

(April 1, 2013 at 9:09 pm)Godschild Wrote: God did create Lucifer and He knew what Lucifer would decide to do, that still doesn't mean God desired evil to become a part of creation.
Answer this please, if you have a child and that child becomes a murderer does that make you a murderer? The way I see your reasoning you are, and should have to serve the same punishment your child does.

Poor analogy.

You admit right there that God knew of Lucifer's intentions...so God knew Lucifer would be evil, correct?

So, yes, if your child is a murderer that doesn't make you a murderer, but if you KNOW your child WILL be a murderer and do nothing about it....

(April 1, 2013 at 9:09 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is omniscient and omnipotent.

God did create Lucifer and He knew what Lucifer would decide to do, that still doesn't mean God desired evil to become a part of creation.

You have basically contradicted yourself. If god was omniscient, he would have known that lucifer would turn against god. If god is omniscient, and he created lucifer knowing this, then god desired evil to become part of creation. Had he not wanted evil to exist, he would not have created lucifer due to his omniscience informing him of the outcome of creating such a being that would introduce evil into the world.

(April 1, 2013 at 9:09 pm)Godschild Wrote: God did create Lucifer and He knew what Lucifer would decide to do, that still doesn't mean God desired evil to become a part of creation.
Answer this please, if you have a child and that child becomes a murderer does that make you a murderer? The way I see your reasoning you are, and should have to serve the same punishment your child does.

False analogy.

The Biblical 'God' character is supposed to be omniscient. So he had the ability to stop evil coming into the world. Yet he didn't. Why? So the universe would become a 'soul filtering machine'?

A parent would not know that the child would become a murderer. So,no, the parent is not a murderer.

Quote:See the above answer with the child. Lucifer had free will to choose his future, he was so blinded by self he could not rationalize he wouldn't be able to defeat and over throw his Creator.

Free will can not exist with a god that is omniscient. If god is omniscient, he knows every choice anyone will ever make, before we ever make it, In a universe with an omniscient god, we would have the illusion of free will.