People believe in free-will, perpetual identity, praise and human rights - all which have no evidence. So it's not necessary that something has to have evidence to be rational to believe (per majority of humans). In Islam, it was taught it was in the nature of humanity to know God. So from that perspective, no evidence is required.

(April 2, 2013 at 8:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote: People believe in free-will, perpetual identity, praise and human rights - all which have no evidence. So it's not necessary that something has to have evidence to be rational to believe (per majority of humans). In Islam, it was taught it was in the nature of humanity to know God. So from that perspective, no evidence is required.

There is evidence to suggest that we don't actually have free-will... From this, I don't believe we have free-will.
I don't believe we have natural human-rights, either.
Do gorillas have gorilla-rights? And cats have cat-rights? I think it's entirely subjective and stems from the golden rule - Would I like to be treated this way? Of course there are exceptions to that, but as a general rule it works.

(April 2, 2013 at 8:25 am)Joel Wrote:

(April 2, 2013 at 8:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote: People believe in free-will, perpetual identity, praise and human rights - all which have no evidence. So it's not necessary that something has to have evidence to be rational to believe (per majority of humans). In Islam, it was taught it was in the nature of humanity to know God. So from that perspective, no evidence is required.

There is evidence to suggest that we don't actually have free-will... From this, I don't believe we have free-will.

There is evidence from naturalism perspective. In fact, it seems almost certain that we don't and things like "well at the bottom level there is no cause and effect" doesn't change anything with regards to how the brain functions and identifying free-will.

Therefore free-will, if we know to be true, would be an argument against naturalism (ie. need of a soul).

As there is evidence naturalism is true (evidence of bad design, evidence of evolution, God being shy, etc), there is in general evidence of free-will not being true.

Silll humanity refuses to believe in this notion for the most part.

Why don't we have a category of people called "Afreewillist" that people take seriously

Most of humanity will believe in free-will, despite the scientific and psychological evidence that we have none.

Compatibilism in all seriousness, is a joke, it's an oxymoron.

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(April 2, 2013 at 8:25 am)Joel Wrote: I don't believe we have natural human-rights, either.

That's because you are a rational Atheist. Most Atheists however are faithful like the believers

(March 27, 2013 at 9:51 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Well, I've been an atheist since birth. I tried to believe in God, but it seemed really silly and improbable, like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Additionally, I couldn't see a way out of the problem of evil, and concluded that either God does not exist, or God is not a being worthy of worship.

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(March 27, 2013 at 9:51 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Well, I've been an atheist since birth. I tried to believe in God, but it seemed really silly and improbable, like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Additionally, I couldn't see a way out of the problem of evil, and concluded that either God does not exist, or God is not a being worthy of worship.

My only question is, "What if you are wrong?" Are you prepared for the consequences of what hell will be like. You still have time before you die and I pray that you study what the crufication was all about and ask forsalvation. I was 45 years old before seeing the light and have been totally at peace since then. NO stress, worries, etc. You'll need to experience it for yourself.
May God bless and keep you!!

(April 2, 2013 at 10:04 am)imnezrider Wrote:

(March 27, 2013 at 9:51 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Well, I've been an atheist since birth. I tried to believe in God, but it seemed really silly and improbable, like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Additionally, I couldn't see a way out of the problem of evil, and concluded that either God does not exist, or God is not a being worthy of worship.

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(March 27, 2013 at 9:51 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Well, I've been an atheist since birth. I tried to believe in God, but it seemed really silly and improbable, like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Additionally, I couldn't see a way out of the problem of evil, and concluded that either God does not exist, or God is not a being worthy of worship.

My only question is, "What if you are wrong?" Are you prepared for the consequences of what hell will be like. You still have time before you die and I pray that you study what the crufication was all about and ask forsalvation. I was 45 years old before seeing the light and have been totally at peace since then. NO stress, worries, etc. You'll need to experience it for yourself.
May God bless and keep you!!

Then suppose, My God, my Master, my Protector and my Lord that I am able to endure Your chastisement
How can I endure separation from You?
And suppose that I am able to endure the heat of Your fire,
How can I endure not gazing upon Your generosity?

-Du'a Kumail taught by Imam Ali.

Why don't you emphasize on separation from the Divine? Why don't you emphasize on missing out on spiritual bliss and state of appreciation?

Why focus on threatening people of pain. It's a petty way of preaching and petty motive to become interested in religion.

We've heard Pascal's wager before, rider.

The crucifixion was a sick form of punishment from a former era. It was nothing special.

(April 2, 2013 at 10:04 am)imnezrider Wrote:

(March 27, 2013 at 9:51 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Well, I've been an atheist since birth. I tried to believe in God, but it seemed really silly and improbable, like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Additionally, I couldn't see a way out of the problem of evil, and concluded that either God does not exist, or God is not a being worthy of worship.

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(March 27, 2013 at 9:51 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Well, I've been an atheist since birth. I tried to believe in God, but it seemed really silly and improbable, like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Additionally, I couldn't see a way out of the problem of evil, and concluded that either God does not exist, or God is not a being worthy of worship.

My only question is, "What if you are wrong?" Are you prepared for the consequences of what hell will be like. You still have time before you die and I pray that you study what the crufication was all about and ask forsalvation. I was 45 years old before seeing the light and have been totally at peace since then. NO stress, worries, etc. You'll need to experience it for yourself.
May God bless and keep you!!

Are you actually going for "Pascal's Wager"?
And what if we're both wrong? and the one true god is Zeus? or if it's Shiva? Or any of the thousands of other gods mankind has worshiped?

What if we're wrong?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gods_Christ...believe_in

Maybe we're all wrong.

There are about 600 Gods, there. You believe in one out of six hundred. I believe in none out of six hundred.

The "What if you're wrong" argument is ridiculous when you take into account how many Gods you are rejecting.

Personally, I succumb to it, in that I decide it's better to seek certainty then be satisfied with not knowing for sure.

If there is a religion out there then can lead me to bliss, if there is guidance, I don't want to miss out.

If there is severe consequence (which I am relatively certain there aren't) to missing out on guidance, then I don't want to take a chance.

It is more work to study religions. But I rather not take my chances personally.

(April 2, 2013 at 10:28 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Personally, I succumb to it, in that I decide it's better to seek certainty then be satisfied with not knowing for sure.

If there is a religion out there then can lead me to bliss, if there is guidance, I don't want to miss out.

If there is severe consequence (which I am relatively certain there aren't) to missing out on guidance, then I don't want to take a chance.

It is more work to study religions. But I rather not take my chances personally.

That's what I don't classify myself as an Apatheist.