(April 6, 2013 at 5:26 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You dispute the FACT that an unborn baby is a human? That a fetus is a human? And what is this "illogical appeal to emotion"? Appealing to the base of the human experience is illogical?

I do not deny that a foetus is made of human cells. However, calling a foetus an unborn baby is like calling a child an underdeveloped adult. Ja, it may work, but it makes no sense to use the term. Saying abortion is killing an unborn baby is like saying murdering me is killing a 42-year-old college professor (which I may or many not grow up to become, similar to how a foetus may or may not become a baby) who just isn't quite there yet.

Through using language which includes the word "baby" unnecessarily, you are trying to elicit an emotional response from others, who may oppose the killing of babies and/or be emotionally attatched to babies but are less likely to oppose the abortion of foetuses and/or be emotionally attatched to foetuses. You are doing this because you think the emotional response strengthens your argument -- only evil heartless people could support the murder of all teh innocent little babbies!!

Hint: It doesn't, or at least shouldn't, work. Arguments here should not be based on emotions. Find other ways to support your point.

Now, if you'd kindly give a response or at least acknowledgement of the major difference between a baby and a foetus, that'd be nice. That was after all the point of my previous post.

(April 6, 2013 at 5:30 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 5:26 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: But how does the fetus's knowledge of its own emotion have any bearing on the existence of the fetus?

Stating that the fetus has any knowledge of its own existence is absurd. The bundle of cells does not have cognition.

A fetus has a heart beat at 8 days after conception, right? Then in the next 36 to 40 weeks, it grows at a staggering rate into the form of a small human being. It moves, kicks, sucks it's thumb, and thinks. It is aware of it's own existence. Even though most abortions are done in the first 14 weeks, some places in the US allow it up to 24 weeks. That's absurd! By the time the baby is 14 weeks developed in it's mother's womb, it is moving like crazy, and it is beginning to control it's muscles with greater ease. How can it have no knowledge of it's existence, if it is coming into control over it's own body? At 24 weeks an unborn baby can sometimes taste what the mother eats or drinks! And you say that it has no knowledge of it's existence?

---

(April 6, 2013 at 6:49 am)Kayenneh Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 4:48 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: How would you feel if you were the one being aborted, because your mother was the victim of an attack like that?

Nothing, or do you suggest that I should have memories from before I was born?

No, I admit that I was wrong there. You would not remember feeling anything in the womb.

(April 6, 2013 at 5:26 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: And anyone who aborts a child should be treated as a murderer!
---
Why is it okay to murder one human and not another?

Isn't that a bit harsh? What about soldiers, executioners and people who kill others in self defense? Are they any more justified in taking fully developed human lives?

I said murder. I didn't say killing in war. These things are completely different. It is your decision to go to war, or to put your life on the line in any profession, it is not your decision to be murdered. Murder is when someone kills you and you have no say in the matter. Like when babies are aborted in the womb.

According to medical science, the infant, post birth, does not become self-aware until around the age of two.

You are making an illogical emotional appeal over something that is not fish, not reptile and not mammalian ....YET.

Calm down and BREATHE have a cup of tea and just clam down Drew.

(April 6, 2013 at 6:51 am)Mononoke Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 5:26 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You dispute the FACT that an unborn baby is a human? That a fetus is a human? And what is this "illogical appeal to emotion"? Appealing to the base of the human experience is illogical?

I do not deny that a foetus is made of human cells. However, calling a foetus an unborn baby is like calling a child an underdeveloped adult. Ja, it may work, but it makes no sense to use the term. Saying abortion is killing an unborn baby is like saying murdering me is killing a 42-year-old college professor (which I may or many not grow up to become, similar to how a foetus may or may not become a baby) who just isn't quite there yet.

Through using language which includes the word "baby" unnecessarily, you are trying to elicit an emotional response from others, who may oppose the killing of babies and/or be emotionally attatched to babies but are less likely to oppose the abortion of foetuses and/or be emotionally attatched to foetuses. You are doing this because you think the emotional response strengthens your argument -- only evil heartless people could support the murder of all teh innocent little babbies!!

Hint: It doesn't, or at least shouldn't, work. Arguments here should not be based on emotions. Find other ways to support your point.

Now, if you'd kindly give a response or at least acknowledgement of the major difference between a baby and a foetus, that'd be nice. That was after all the point of my previous post.

Fetus: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

At 2 months, 8 weeks, of pregnancy, the baby is moving along swiftly in its development. It has it's own blood type. It's heart has by then divided into its left and right chambers and beats at approximately 150 bpm. The baby is at this point beginning to practice moving. So a fetus is defined above as a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth. That means that most of it's development occurs after the period in which it classifies as a fetus.

Fetus = Unborn Baby.

Emotional arguments aside, this is fact and nothing but fact. Abortions are allowed up to 14 weeks and in some places up to 24 weeks! That is well into the development of the child!

So you see that a fetus is a human being, not something completely unaware of its own existence. The face begins to develop in the first month! Well before the time limit on abortion expires.

Yeah so just what is your problem Drew?

(April 6, 2013 at 7:15 am)Maelstrom Wrote: According to medical science, the infant, post birth, does not become self-aware until around the age of two.

Oh okay.. it's not self aware until its two? So is it okay to kill an infant after it's born now?

And how can it not be self aware when it controls its own movements?

---

(April 6, 2013 at 7:28 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Yeah so just what is your problem Drew?

Refer to above post.

Did Drew and it is just drowning in emotionalism. You are not making any sense at all. Foetuses of most mammalian species will abort @ 24+ weeks so just what is the big deal?

I think you are over-reacting

(April 6, 2013 at 7:28 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Oh okay.. it's not self aware until its two? So is it okay to kill an infant after it's born now?

I am tempted to provide an affirmative response, but I do not want to get you more riled up than you already are. Seriously, though, you do need to calm down.

As far as abortion is concerned, I do not advocate it past the recommended twenty four weeks unless the mother's life is in peril or there is something severely wrong with the fetus where it would be more humane to end its life to cut short its suffering in this world.

Yes, I do support abortion. No, I do not view it as murder. Yes, a fetus is both a human and a bundle of cells. No, a fetus does not have personhood. Yes, the fetus is a parasite.

(April 6, 2013 at 7:31 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Did Drew and it is just drowning in emotionalism. You are not making any sense at all. Foetuses of most mammalian species will abort @ 24+ weeks so just what is the big deal?

I think you are over-reacting

You read the response to mononoke? That is drowning in emotionalism? Those are facts. I don't understand what you mean here.