I just watched the video and I lost a little more faith in humanity -.-

Can you count the number of times "Patriarchy" has been uttered?

This seems a bit one-sided. Should men also try to be what women want, or are they free to be whatever they wish while expecting women to fit into a specific role? I don't care for radical feminists because of the "radical" part, not the feminist part. A woman who demands that all woman fill some kind of role, and chastises those who don't, doesn't seem all that different from a man who encourages women to fill some age-old stereotype because it's 'what men want.'

I completely agree, Tonus. I've said other places that it's not fair that men have to fit a preconceived "manly" stereotype or get razzed (or worse).

The answer is equality, it is that simple. Sure, in the western world, some stuff still needs to be done towards that, but its work in progress and fundamentalisms are really conterproductive.

(April 22, 2013 at 11:27 am)LastPoet Wrote: I just watched the video and I lost a little more faith in humanity -.-

Can you count the number of times "Patriarchy" has been uttered?

Once is too many. I'm sick of hearing it myself. But as she says, she doesn't hate men. Yeah, that must be it. Ever noticed how many feminists label themselves as bisexual, pansexual, kitchensinksexual? Weird. They're just weird people. I'm always wary of anyone who is part of a movement, or an ism of any kind. And a lot of them have tattoos, what's up with that? Even grannies these days have tattoos, like it's sexy.

Now check out the trainwreck on the far left in this debate. She's got the lot, she's got the tattoos, the masculine hairdo, no effort whatsoever to make herself look slim and attractive, and that annoying way of talking where everything sounds like a question? That's the hallmark of someone who knows that their shite will never be accepted as truth so they try to come off as reasonable by making it sound like a question? You know what I mean? I hope you do? Anyway? Moving on? Haha, horrible isn't it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3vTGPsqbZ0

And notice that any time the guy interrupts even just ever so slightly, or interjects, all the fems in the audience simultaneous go "SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!" God I hate people like that. So fucking obnoxious.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: I agree that no one should be forced into a box, but you have to consider that people are at their best when they are in a particular role.

Not necessarily… My next door neighbor is a stay-at-home-dad. We're buds and our kids are the same ages so we talk a lot… When they had kids he didn't plan on being a stay-at-home-dad, but he fell into it because of the cost of child care and the fact that his wife brought in more money. He likes staying home with the kids, but it wasn't his chosen role. He's a fantastic dad and his kids are thriving.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: I wouldn't force a woman to be traditional, but I would prefer her to be traditional, and women need to take note of what men are attracted to.

This is highly subjective. Some men would like a go-getter, career minded woman. That's not your taste, and that's fine, but not all men are attracted to a "traditional" woman.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: If a woman sincerely wants to do this or that in whatever way she wants, that's fine, as long as feminists aren't forcing her. Women should just be themselves…

Ramen! If I had a nickel for every snide, "Oh, so you stay home…" comment…

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: ...and it just so happens that there's a particular way of being that is naturally attractive and appealing to men, just like there's a natural masculine manner which is attractive to women.

Again, speaking in generalities in this instance is shooting yourself in the foot. Some women like sensitive guys. Some men like dominate women. My husband is "traditionally" masculine in certain respects. But if we're going out as a family, he doesn't drive, I do, a typically male role. He also typically cooks, because I'm abysmal in the kitchen (besides baking… I can bake, but one shouldn't eat cakes for dinner every night). We have a general break-down of household duties that suit us, but aren't necessarily typical to our respective gender roles. I built porch steps a couple of weeks ago, something my "masculine" husband wouldn't attempt.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: If you've ever looked at women's dating profiles, you'll notice a massive difference in the way that western women sell themselves compared to women from other parts of the world.

For example, a typical western woman will sell herself as being confident, career minded, sarcastic (I see that one a lot), blunt, a party girl, and so on. The kind of guy she's looking for has to be : confident, a certain height, a certain look, have certain interests, and so on. A lot of superficial requirements, and they tend to state preferences rather than necessities.

By contrast, a filipino girl (I use this as an excellent example) will typically sell herself as being kind, sweet, humble, respectful, feminine, gentle, hard working, good with money, affectionate, etc. The kind of guy she's looking for is someone who is nice, kind, and not much else really. Not demanding, and focussed on what is really important.

It's like night and day. Western women have very much lost touch with what men want.

This is just exemplifying how gender is a cultural construct. You like a more traditional role. But not everyone does. Why should a woman have to be something she doesn't want to be or isn't to fit? She doesn't. Does that lower her chances of finding a mate? Perhaps, but I think there's someone out there for everyone (maybe not EVERYONE, but most people), including radical feminists.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: I'm all for equality but you have to be careful what you mean by equality. Men and women have equal value but their roles are largely quite different. Women have certain strengths but western women are so busy trying to be like men that they neglect their natural strengths. And in a way that negates all talk of equality because by trying to be like a man, it's like you're giving up on your womanhood. It's like a black slave trying to act free by painting their face white, or a cat trying to be equal to a dog by barking. It doesn't work.

Natural strengths… hmmm… My youngest son is very nurturing. He likes to carry his stuffed animals around, dress them up, feed them, generally take care of them, loves babies, etc. This doesn't make him "less masculine" or "more feminine" it simply means he's nurturing. To me, nurturing is a good thing, so I encourage and participate in his nurturing role playing. Part of the issue is to not force kids into a specific gender, i.e.: not allowing boys to play with dolls or not allowing girls to play with action figures or trucks.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:58 am)Macky Avelli Wrote: Feminists confuse being of equal value with being the same. That doesn't work either. And when you criticise them, out comes the shaming language. Feminism damages womanhood. Women should be women, rather than arbitrarily trying to be different just for the sake of being different. Women already have an identity, there's no need to take on men's identities or try to create weird new ones. If a woman is genuinely "different", so be it, but seriously, most aren't.

I think re-framing this would work better. What feminists want is to not have girls (and boys) pigeon-holed. Instead, encourage their natural tendencies and allow them to be as they are, and accept them just as they are, and for them to have a place in society, just as they are.

1) tattoos are sexy. you don't have to like them, but that's your business. I have 3.

2) I don't like this discussion about how they look as if that matters in regards to their arguments.

Personal preferences are personal. If you don't like those preferences you can avoid them. That's your problem. If she likes tattoo's good for her. If you don't good for you. That has little impact on if an argument is right or wrong.

Someone in the video said that there is 0.0% cases of false rape accusations

Really?

Let's see...

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