(April 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Forgive me for assuming you sincerely wanted to know the answers to your questions. According to what law of rationality is the existence of an immaterial, eternal, immutable, omniscient, omnipotent, transcendent God necessarily ridiculous? I think asking whether an eternal being is dead is what is rather ridiculous.

You are forgiven! Don't let it happen again though.

The only thing funnier than poking fun at god, is poking fun at his followers.

You'd think the old bugger might grow and pair and do something about it. He certainly had the inclination and gumption during the old testament.

But, as we all know, god is only as active and powerful as the imaginations of his followers. I guess that means the old group kept him much more alive.

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(April 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: It seems that is precisely the reason you started this thread. You have already admitted that you were not sincerely seeking the answers to those questions. That seems to indicate that the reason you started this thread was to obtain reassurance from your atheist friends that what you hope is true (God doesn’t exist) is indeed true.

Yeah, cause it certainly wasn't purely for the obvious entertainment value!

Time to remind the jesus freaks that logic and rationality are not their friends. Of course...reality is their enemy so I suppose they take what solace they can in bullshit.


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(April 30, 2013 at 6:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Time to remind the jesus freaks that logic and rationality are not their friends. Of course...reality is their enemy so I suppose they take what solace they can in bullshit.

…says the atheist whose view of reality completely undermines the possible existence of logic and rationality. That’s funny.

(April 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(April 29, 2013 at 9:45 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Can't get enough of circles?

There’s nothing circular about that statement, the OP granted us the Christian God’s existence, if you have an issue with His existence being used to prove He is not dead you should take that out with smax. I am just being consistent with the OP.

umm.. that's not how things work. When Star Wars fanatics talk about characters in the film, it might sound like they are "assuming" they're real... but that's just what you do; you simply talk about the characters like you would with anything else, whether real or not. Therefore, to say that the OP has brought your god into existence is nonsensical. Do you think smax believes that himself? No. Just like we can talk about Luke Skywalker and what "he did", but he isn't real. In other words, show me the money. Hypothetical money doesn't buy you anything.

Quote:

Quote: Indeed. Praise Allah.

Allah doesn’t exist because we’ve already been granted the existence of Yahweh in the OP (thanks smax), the two are mutually exclusive.

Again, wrong. I stand by my objection until you accept believers of other faiths is evidence of their god's existence OR you concede that your reasoning is illogical.

Quote:

Quote:Unless, he hasn't existed for all eternity, like every other god you say doesn't exist.

One of the Christian God’s attributes is eternal existence.

A nice addition to the concept, but you're far from showing it exists.

(April 30, 2013 at 8:42 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Again, wrong. I stand by my objection until you accept believers of other faiths is evidence of their god's existence OR you concede that your reasoning is illogical.

And maybe the reason the Christian god hasn't been doing anything lately, and is so long overdue, is because he actually got his divine ass kicked by another god like Thor.

Why didn't I think of that one during my OP?

Quote:One of the Christian God’s attributes is eternal existence.

Quote:A nice addition to the concept, but you're far from showing it exists.

You gotta love the religious man's reasoning:

"God must exist because we do."

But the following deduction is absurd:

______ must exist because god does.

(April 30, 2013 at 8:42 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: umm.. that's not how things work. When Star Wars fanatics talk about characters in the film, it might sound like they are "assuming" they're real... but that's just what you do; you simply talk about the characters like you would with anything else, whether real or not. Therefore, to say that the OP has brought your god into existence is nonsensical. Do you think smax believes that himself? No. Just like we can talk about Luke Skywalker and what "he did", but he isn't real. In other words, show me the money. Hypothetical money doesn't buy you anything.

No, that is absolutely how it works, smax used language that is only meaningful if God existed (you cannot ask how someone knows if someone is not dead without assuming that person was at one point living). The bigger problem here is that smax asked a nonsensical question, it’d be like asking, “How do you know that squares do not really have 5 corners?” Well because by definition squares cannot have five corners just as by definition God cannot die. If you want to ask how we know God exists then fine, but asking how we know God is not dead is absurd because by definition God cannot die. The original question was illogical. What you’re trying to do is nothing more than the fallacy of the bait and switch.

Quote:Again, wrong. I stand by my objection until you accept believers of other faiths is evidence of their god's existence OR you concede that your reasoning is illogical.

You’re wrong again, there is no Muslim doctrine that a person can only believe in Allah if Allah is applying saving grace to that person; so if Allah ever existed the existence of Muslims would not prove he still existed. However, the existence of Christians does prove that Yahweh is still living. This thread is about Yahweh though, so bringing up Allah is the fallacy of the red herring.

Quote:A nice addition to the concept, but you're far from showing it exists.

The point of this thread was not to prove God exists, it was to prove that God is not dead (which presupposes living which presupposes existence). You’re merely trying to now move the goalposts because the theists blew this thread up with such little effort.

(May 1, 2013 at 3:14 pm)smax Wrote: And maybe the reason the Christian god hasn't been doing anything lately, and is so long overdue, is because he actually got his divine ass kicked by another god like Thor.

Thor doesn’t exist.

Quote: Why didn't I think of that one during my OP?

Apparently, it’s because you were not thinking much at all when you wrote the OP.

Quote:You gotta love the religious man's reasoning:

…only if you love rationality, but not many atheists actually do this day and age.

Quote: "God must exist because we do."

Bingo.

Quote: But the following deduction is absurd:

______ must exist because god does.

Yes, but that doesn’t prove the one above that is also absurd, God is a non-contingent being, humans are contingent beings (and are contingent upon God’s existence, so if Humans exist it logically follows that God must also still be living).

Is it possible for God to be dead but to never have existed in the first place?

(April 30, 2013 at 7:53 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(April 30, 2013 at 6:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Time to remind the jesus freaks that logic and rationality are not their friends. Of course...reality is their enemy so I suppose they take what solace they can in bullshit.

…says the atheist whose view of reality completely undermines the possible existence of logic and rationality. That’s funny.

Logic is a tool to tools like you. You twist it beyond reason and claim it proves the implausible.

Fuck off.

(May 1, 2013 at 7:26 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: No, that is absolutely how it works, smax used language that is only meaningful if God existed (you cannot ask how someone knows if someone is not dead without assuming that person was at one point living). The bigger problem here is that smax asked a nonsensical question, it’d be like asking, “How do you know that squares do not really have 5 corners?” Well because by definition squares cannot have five corners just as by definition God cannot die. If you want to ask how we know God exists then fine, but asking how we know God is not dead is absurd because by definition God cannot die. The original question was illogical. What you’re trying to do is nothing more than the fallacy of the bait and switch.

You're really just going to stop your imagination dead at the point that agrees with your beliefs? That's not how this works. We're already basically talking fanfiction with your god anyway, and since it's all unverifiable nonsense to begin with, what's to stop one from just saying that, I dunno, an even more omnipotent magical being suddenly popped into existence and killed your god with his double magic powers? Or that god tried his hand at creation again, fucked it up again, and ended up making something powerful enough to kill him?

None of this is any more implausible than the original god claim you've failed to demonstrate, so why the fuck not?

Quote:Thor doesn’t exist.

Ooh, if only you'd follow that logic to it's natural conclusion...

Quote:…only if you love rationality, but not many atheists actually do this day and age.

Quote:Yes, but that doesn’t prove the one above that is also absurd, God is a non-contingent being, humans are contingent beings (and are contingent upon God’s existence, so if Humans exist it logically follows that God must also still be living).

Is it possible for God to be dead but to never have existed in the first place?

Would you like to demonstrate literally any part of this wild ass assertion you just made?

(May 1, 2013 at 7:26 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: The bigger problem here is that smax asked a nonsensical question,

It was a joke. Anyone with an average IQ figured that out by the third line.

Sorry about the implication there, but if the shoe fits.....

Quote:Thor doesn’t exist.

Prove it.

Quote:Apparently, it’s because you were not thinking much at all when you wrote the OP.

True, it didn't take much effort to make a mockery of god.

Never does.

Quote:Yes, but that doesn’t prove the one above that is also absurd, God is a non-contingent being, humans are contingent beings (and are contingent upon God’s existence, so if Humans exist it logically follows that God must also still be living).

Okay, so then how did god come to be?

Quote:Is it possible for God to be dead but to never have existed in the first place?

It is in a joke.

Statler Waldorf Wrote:No, that is absolutely how it works, smax used language that is only meaningful if God existed (you cannot ask how someone knows if someone is not dead without assuming that person was at one point living). The bigger problem here is that smax asked a nonsensical question, it’d be like asking, “How do you know that squares do not really have 5 corners?” Well because by definition squares cannot have five corners just as by definition God cannot die. If you want to ask how we know God exists then fine, but asking how we know God is not dead is absurd because by definition God cannot die. The original question was illogical. What you’re trying to do is nothing more than the fallacy of the bait and switch.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. "By definition" does it mean within this thread I'm technically a Christian because I can make statements about your obviously real and existent god as if I believe in it? No, of course not, just like I can say Darth Vader is Luke's father without actually believing this is a truth about reality. In short, those that don't believe your claims/beliefs are able to communicate with you via granting a hypothetical environment for their arguments to reside in. This isn't the same as believing in your god, which you think it is the case.

Quote:You’re wrong again, there is no Muslim doctrine that a person can only believe in Allah if Allah is applying saving grace to that person; so if Allah ever existed the existence of Muslims would not prove he still existed. However, the existence of Christians does prove that Yahweh is still living. This thread is about Yahweh though, so bringing up Allah is the fallacy of the red herring.

Muslims do better than that. They claim everyone is born a Muslim. People exist, not just Muslims, but people, therefore Allah exists.

You don't like this reasoning? Then you don't have any justification to accept that existent belief in the Christian god means the Christian god exists. No red herring here, just simply playing by your special-pleaded logic.