(May 18, 2013 at 9:28 am)festive1 Wrote: Bush joined the National Guard to avoid being drafted.
Cheney:

Quote:In 1989, The Washington Post writer George C. Wilson interviewed Cheney as the next Secretary of Defense; when asked about his deferments, Cheney reportedly said, "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney

A lot of draft dodgers.

ETA: What I find sickening is how people who did serve, like John Kerry, are not given credit for their sacrifices. I seem to remember the Right attacking his service record during his presidential run... Many young men dodged the Draft, I don't find that in and of itself "bad." But we shouldn't demonize those who did serve in a very unpopular war.

Quote:But we shouldn't demonize those who did serve in a very unpopular war.

Where did I demonize anyone for their service in the military?

You may not have, but your right-wing friends were quite critical about Kerry's service. There are draft dodgers on both sides of the aisle. It's not fair to point out Democratic draft dodgers while giving a pass to Republican draft dodgers, or vice versa. But the Republicans did attack Kerry for actually serving, that's really hypocritical, IMO, as they were running Bush/Cheney, neither of whom served and actively dodged service.

Hey A-Theist, I was hoping you or another Republican would drop by this thread and maybe shed some light on the main question in the OP.

(May 18, 2013 at 10:40 am)festive1 Wrote: You may not have, but your right-wing friends were quite critical about Kerry's service. There are draft dodgers on both sides of the aisle. But the Republicans did attack Kerry for actually serving, that's really hypocritical, IMO, as they were running Bush/Cheney, neither of whom served and actively dodged service.

Quote: It's not fair to point out Democratic draft dodgers while giving a pass to Republican draft dodgers, or vice versa.

hmmmm...funny you didn't raise any objections when Min pointed out so-called Republican draft dodgers and gave a pass to Democratic draft dodgers, (the reason for my original response)...and you talk about hypocrisy?

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(May 18, 2013 at 12:25 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Hey A-Theist, I was hoping you or another Republican would drop by this thread and maybe shed some light on the main question in the OP.

...you should have added IOKIYAD to your OP...that way you or another Democrat wouldn't sound so much like leftist hypocrites...

(May 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(May 18, 2013 at 12:25 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Hey A-Theist, I was hoping you or another Republican would drop by this thread and maybe shed some light on the main question in the OP.

...you should have added IOKIYAD to your OP...that way you or another Democrat wouldn't sound so much like leftist hypocrites...

Uh huh. So, you want to have a crack at the main question of the OP?

Or are you going to continue to try to dodge the question with Red Herring evasion and childish "No U!" responses?

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EDIT TO ADD:
In case you pretend not to know what the original question in the OP was, here it is:

Quote:The Obama administration claimed that there was now no terrorist threat in the world from Al Qaida or any other terrorist group now because Bin Laden is dead?

Really?

Someone in the Obama administration or campaign actually stated, suggested or implied that Al Qaida, a decentralized terror conglomerate with independent cells working all over the world was now expected to fold up its tent because Bin Laden is dead?

Someone actually made that outrageously preposterous claim?

Did I miss it?

(May 18, 2013 at 9:28 am)festive1 Wrote: Bush joined the National Guard to avoid being drafted.

True.

I am certainly no fan of Bush - but I find fault more with the policies that allowed preferential placement into "champagne units", and allowed for the existence of such units in the first place. The system in place allowed him to avoid combat because of his station, and that was the true evil of the situation. That's not to say that I find virtue in taking advantage of such policies - but it is certainly understandable that one would act in one's own self-interest. That motivation was little different than my ex father-in-law who enlisted in the Air Force to avoid the draft and losing control of his future, along with countless others. I find no fault with those who enlisted into safer forms of service, or even those who followed their conscience and accepted the risk of their actions.

That war was an enormous shit sandwich and I can hardly blame anyone for not wanting to take a big bite.

The corrupt system of conscription and service that existed in that time was grossly inequitable and I for one am glad that many of the injustices that once existed no longer do.

Now, his later actions, that I can find great fault with.

(May 18, 2013 at 3:53 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That war was an enormous shit sandwich and I can hardly blame anyone for not wanting to take a big bite.

Fine but don't call for others to bite from it either.

The problem with Bush wasn't that he was a draft-dodger. The problem with Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, et al is that they cheered the Vietnam War while not wanting to fight in it.

They were and are chicken-hawks. They're all in favor of America going out and "kicking-ass" but only as long as they and their children don't have to put their butts on the line.

It's also by the way why A-Theists latest round of "both-sides-do-it-why-are-you-picking-on-us" once again fails. Bill Clinton was also a draft dodger but he didn't cheer-lead for the Vietnam War nor did he lie us into another costly war in Iraq.

Hypocrisy, not draft-dodging, is the issue.

(May 18, 2013 at 5:06 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(May 18, 2013 at 3:53 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That war was an enormous shit sandwich and I can hardly blame anyone for not wanting to take a big bite.

Fine but don't call for others to bite from it either.

The problem with Bush wasn't that he was a draft-dodger. The problem with Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, et al is that they cheered the Vietnam War while not wanting to fight in it.

They were and are chicken-hawks. They're all in favor of America going out and "kicking-ass" but only as long as they and their children don't have to put their butts on the line.

It's also by the way why A-Theists latest round of "both-sides-do-it-why-are-you-picking-on-us" once again fails. Bill Clinton was also a draft dodger but he didn't cheer-lead for the Vietnam War nor did he lie us into another costly war in Iraq.

Hypocrisy, not draft-dodging, is the issue.

Hypocrisy pretty much runs rampant on your side...Bill Clinton didn't cheer-lead for the Vietnam War but the draft dodging hypocrite did commit American troops to fight in Kosovo, a war we had no business being involved in...'Wags the Dog'....and both sides do it...especially your side.

there have been 7 embassy attacks resulting in 6 total deaths so far under obama's watch, none have received this much attention......why? ....because this one happened in an election season and republicans don't want too look stupid after throwing such a hissy fit over it too just let the issue die now that the election is over......

Just for the record...... there were also 7 embassy attacks under George W. Bush as well...... resulting in 31 total deaths

So I take it you're not going to answer the question in the original post then?

Fine. Are you ready to admit then that Cheney is lying as are all the Republicans who've repeated this Obama-lied-about-terrorism-after-Bin-Laden mantra?

Very well, moving on to your latest round of hey-man-both-sides-do-it-so-stop-picking-on-us. As we've reviewed previously, this is the last line of defense when conservatives get caught being corrupt, abusive, dishonest, etc. The ad hominem tu quoque argument (mingled with a dash of red herring evasion) is a tacit admission of "guilty as charged" while still trying to run cover for the behavior by claiming persecution.

In the first place, these are recognized logical fallacies. Clinton's behavior can't be used to validate the behavior of W or Cheney.

In the second place, the tu quoque argument (once again) completely fails because the comparison isn't valid. Observe your own words:

(May 18, 2013 at 5:27 pm)A Theist Wrote: Hypocrisy pretty much runs rampant on your side...Bill Clinton didn't cheer-lead for the Vietnam War but ...

But nothing. Stop right there.

1. Clinton dodged the draft during Vietnam.
2. Clinton didn't support the Vietnam war.
3. Ergo, Clinton was a conscientious objector to the War in Vietnam.

1. W Bush dodged the draft during Vietnam.
2. W Bush cheered on the war in Vietnam.
3. Ergo, Bush was a chicken hawk on the war in Vietnam.

The two are not analogous.

And here's where you try to prove that Kosovo was completely the same war as Vietnam. Good luck.