(December 7, 2009 at 9:18 am)Dotard Wrote: When giving bad news, major repairs/expensive I get asked "Are you Christian?" as if they are judging my honesty by asking this question.

Or even worse they start 'witnessing' to me and that part of me locked in that closet also needs to be bound and gagged because I got a $1800 job staring at me and honesty about that aspect of my life most likely would cost me that job. So I force myself to 'play the part' and I respond "Oh yes, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Halleluja. Praise God! etc etc etc ad nauseum...."

So are you saying that in an attempt to make sure you portray yourself to a customer as "honest", you lie to them? You don't see a problem with that?

The fact is, if you came to my house to give me an estimate for work and I asked you if you were a Christian, if you told me you were an atheist (because you are) I would be more likely to believe that your estimate was honest. My reasoning would be that if you are honest enough to tell me the truth when you know the truth might cost you the job, it is likely that you are also giving me an honest estimate. (I want to noted that I am not so naive as to think that just because someone says they are Christian, that they are automatically and honest business person.)

My advice to you is that if you want people to think you are an honest businessman, tell the truth regardless of the cost.

(December 7, 2009 at 7:57 pm)rjh4 Wrote: So are you saying that in an attempt to make sure you portray yourself to a customer as "honest", you lie to them? You don't see a problem with that?

The fact is, if you came to my house to give me an estimate for work and I asked you if you were a Christian, if you told me you were an atheist (because you are) I would be more likely to believe that your estimate was honest. My reasoning would be that if you are honest enough to tell me the truth when you know the truth might cost you the job, it is likely that you are also giving me an honest estimate. (I want to noted that I am not so naive as to think that just because someone says they are Christian, that they are automatically and honest business person.)

My advice to you is that if you want people to think you are an honest businessman, tell the truth regardless of the cost.

Oh that's a fine and dandy thing to say when you don't pay the price for it.

Dotard has a right to eat, to pay his bills, and mortgage and he shouldn't even have to answer that question in the first place. I cannot blame him for lying when the question is inappropriate to begin with. His religion has nothing to do with his honesty as a businessman. You can be fucked by a Christian just as much as you could be fucked by a Muslim, Jew, or atheist.

When people's livelihoods are at stake it's not so easy to be the stand up guy you think they should be.

I'm offended by your idiotic statement. You shouldn't lie? really? Really? They shouldn't be asking, it shouldn't matter.

(December 7, 2009 at 10:08 am)Eilonnwy Wrote: If I was fired for my lack of belief, the city would find one hell of a lawsuit on their hands.

They won't. But if an over-zelous wants you gone, they'll do it 'right' so it won't come back on them.
Do not put it past the christians to even fabricate things to see you "gotten rid of".

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(December 7, 2009 at 6:40 pm)binny Wrote: It's difficult for me. I escape to places like this.

QFT

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(December 7, 2009 at 7:57 pm)rjh4 Wrote: So are you saying that in an attempt to make sure you portray yourself to a customer as "honest", you lie to them? You don't see a problem with that?

Yes and yes I do.

Quote:The fact is, if you came to my house to give me an estimate for work and I asked you if you were a Christian, if you told me you were an atheist (because you are) I would be more likely to believe that your estimate was honest. My reasoning would be that if you are honest enough to tell me the truth when you know the truth might cost you the job, it is likely that you are also giving me an honest estimate.

I have considered this. Yet while at the customers house I look around and am surrounded by Jesus pictures and portraits and cruixifixes and bibles, well, dishonesty pays the rent.

Quote: (I want to noted that I am not so naive as to think that just because someone says they are Christian, that they are automatically and honest business person.)

If you lived down here in S.Texas with me, there would be two of us.
Exaggeration I know, however if you were standing in that enviroment I described you would conclude that those people did.

Quote:My advice to you is that if you want people to think you are an honest businessman, tell the truth regardless of the cost.

Noted. But.... I like to eat.

(December 7, 2009 at 7:57 pm)rjh4 Wrote: So are you saying that in an attempt to make sure you portray yourself to a customer as "honest", you lie to them? You don't see a problem with that?

The fact is, if you came to my house to give me an estimate for work and I asked you if you were a Christian, if you told me you were an atheist (because you are) I would be more likely to believe that your estimate was honest. My reasoning would be that if you are honest enough to tell me the truth when you know the truth might cost you the job, it is likely that you are also giving me an honest estimate. (I want to noted that I am not so naive as to think that just because someone says they are Christian, that they are automatically and honest business person.)

My advice to you is that if you want people to think you are an honest businessman, tell the truth regardless of the cost.

Bullshit. And you know it. There is a bias against people who are, so to speak, 'godless'. There are numerous studies on this, like this one for example, that show that people will trust those who are perceived as religious.

Indeed, there was also the cancer patient who got fired because her husband had an atheist blog.

http://www.examiner.com/x-8776-Boston-At...ncial-help

That is so fucking stupid... I can't even begin to explain how angry that makes me.... ;\\

The stupidity of some is just amazing...

Sometimes honesty is stupidity. If you want to make a point and become a martyr fair enough, that's a choice. But you need to be cunning to survive.

I knew a Christian who judged two young people under his employment just because of their religious views. One was the same denomination as him, the other simply had no belief. I was just gobsmacked at his attitude... he had no good reason to treat one preferentially over the other. He reasoned that the Christian would, by reason of his hypothetical upbringing, be a better person. In reality, both of them were taking him for a ride big style. One would get extended lectures and the other a pat on the back. I'd say the atheist lad was by far the most honest... he was true to who he was, and was open about that. The Christian was a slimey creep who played the game.

People can't help be biased toward there own kind. It's instinctual I think. That's anti Christ tho'. These Christians are being anti Christ in wanting to make that judgement. Morally, I think Dotard is on the high ground.

(December 7, 2009 at 11:17 pm)Eilonnwy Wrote: Indeed, there was also the cancer patient who got fired because her husband had an atheist blog.

http://www.examiner.com/x-8776-Boston-At...ncial-help

WHAT...THE...FUCK!?!


Edit: Oh, her boss was a Chiropractor... explains a lot, after all, promoting reason and science is not good for his business

First, I want to say that I feel for Dotard as the position he feels like he is put in is not really fair to him. Furthermore, I think that what happened to him in the State job was totally unfair, even immoral. If it was me running the church that he was not participating in, I would have just been happy that he was there. I was not trying to judge Dotard or portray myself as better than him.

My whole point was merely to highlight the extreme inconsistency of being dishonest in order to show oneself as honest.

E…

Just to let you know…I have been in a similar (not the same) situation where I was concerned that I would lose a position (not a job) that I had recently been given because of my beliefs. (I was supervising a number of PhDs in biology, biochemistry, etc.) However, I remained honest about who I was. My concerns about my job were unfounded as I retained my position but I did feel the potential was there.

I agree Dotard has a right to eat, pay his bills, etc. I am not trying to take this away from him. I also agree that his religion has nothing to do with his honesty as a businessman. I think I tried to make the point that I know that Christians can be just as dishonest in business, if not more so, than others. But…I cannot help but think that someone who will lie about being a Christian just to retain a job might also lie about the work that needs to be done in order to eat, pay the bills, etc. Is that not a reasonable and logical thought to have??? Would you not think or wonder the same thing if it was a Christian we were talking about??? (Please do not take this as I am saying that Dotard lies about the work that needs to be done. I am not concluding that as I do not know him nor have a seen his business practices. The questions are meant at face value.)

If you are offended by my statement, then I would conclude that you are easily offended.

Synackaon…

I believe everything I said in my last post. I do not doubt that there is bias toward trusting those who are perceived as religious. While it may not be justified when comparing actual behavior, the thinking on this doesn’t seem irrational as noted above.

You miss the point, religion should not even come up. Unless you're trying to be a priest or something religiously orientated, it's not relevant.