Xtianity is a tool of power.

(December 16, 2009 at 12:43 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Have people really forgotten that the UK isn't a secular country? We have a national religion! There are clergy in the House of Lords (12 of them, at ALL times...as a REQUIREMENT). For fuck's sake, wake up people.

I was not aware of that. I don’t know that much of UK Government, other than it is run under a monarch, and it has a parliament. But I assume no one in the UK has forgotten Margaret Thatcher have they?

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(December 17, 2009 at 10:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Xtianity is a tool of power.

And how would you yield that power Frodo?

(December 20, 2009 at 12:36 am)Amphora Wrote:

(December 17, 2009 at 10:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Xtianity is a tool of power.

And how would you yield that power Frodo?

It's free to use by anyone who wants to abuse it. History is full of examples.

The Old Testament was not a shining example on how man or god should behave. We start off with man's disobeying god. Then Cain kills his brother. This is followed by God having a snit and destroying man with a flood. God then nukes Sodom and Gomorrah. Rebecca helps Jacob deceive Issac, who steals the blessing from Esau. Laban deceives Jacob with his daughter switch. Jospeh's brothers toss him in a pit. God attempts to kill Moses after he commands him to free his people. Moses wanders the desert for 40 years and then God denies him entry into the promise land. Joshua goes on a genocidal rage, commanded by God. Then we have a guy sacrifice his virginal daughter to God. (WTF) Samson lusts after women and kills Philistines at random. Saul attempted to kill David, while David had Uriah killed so he could have his wife. The only reason I see bringing this into government is to make our legislators look saintly.

The difference is that the OT is largely bullshit whereas the abuses that Frodo is talking about were only too real.

So you would use it or abuse it frodo? Imo, if a person had an extreme amount of power most likely he would do bad things with it, as you stated: It's free to use by anyone who wants to abuse it.

But there are probably a fair amount of people who would want to do good things with that power, such as stop world hunger, put an end to this war, and probably countless of other things that would help.

Power corrupts, and history proves that it has. I'd like to think I was perfect or that at least I'd do my best to be selfless.. but that would be going against my nature (Controlling our nature is what Christianity is about, to add a shameless plug ). So I couldn't condemn anyone succumbing to our natures, but we can be sensible and realise this is what happens and take measures to prevent it.

(December 20, 2009 at 4:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Power corrupts, and history proves that it has. I'd like to think I was perfect or that at least I'd do my best to be selfless.. but that would be going against my nature (Controlling our nature is what Christianity is about, to add a shameless plug ). So I couldn't condemn anyone succumbing to our natures, but we can be sensible and realise this is what happens and take measures to prevent it.

That sounds like you are saying that humans are basically immoral and Christianity is required to overcome the problem. I disagree.

Quote:and Christianity is required to overcome the problem.

Then it has been an abject failure in any case.

(December 20, 2009 at 10:15 pm)Joe Bloe Wrote: That sounds like you are saying that humans are basically immoral and Christianity is required to overcome the problem. I disagree.

Yep that's right. The Adam and Eve story was basically establishing that fact. It's the basis of Christianity, and most religions.

Now I don't think animals are bad, but what humans do it curb our animal instincts. We don't rape, steal, kill, when we feel like it, for example. It's not just a religious stance.

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(December 20, 2009 at 10:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:and Christianity is required to overcome the problem.

Then it has been an abject failure in any case.

Yeah. It's an aim.