(June 26, 2013 at 11:25 am)max-greece Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:18 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Mao was a man, not a god. Worshiping him as a god does not negate the fact that the Communist government of China was/is Atheistic.

No - you are missing the point. Atheists don't do worship. We don't worship Gods or men who behave like they are Gods (with the associated capricious lack of respect for human life). By definition therefore, China was not atheist. It merely replaced God with Mao and then ascribed to him all sorts of miraculous brave actions he almost certainly never did.

I think you're trying to make atheism do more work than it is capable of. Individual atheists can believe any kind of crazy, they just can't believe a supernatural deity is real. I know it's hard to take the Maoist or Stalinist thing on board because atheistic communists tended to have a radically different different mindset from most Western atheists, who tend to be secular humanists or at least rationalists. China was atheist. Communism as practiced in most communist countries is atheistic. You can fall prey to a cult of personality and still be an atheist. But the actions of Maoists are Stalinists are no more because of atheism than the actions of Al Qaeda are because of theism.

There is gray area when someone ascribes supernatural powers to a person, I would agree that if you worship a person you believe to have deific powers, you are not an atheist even if you choose to call yourself one. I don't think that describes most Chicoms. It may describe most North Koreans at this point, though.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:18 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:10 am)max-greece Wrote: Hardly - Mao was a virtual Godhead of the state with every citizen expected to have his little red book with them at all times.

Mao was a man, not a god. Worshiping him as a god does not negate the fact that the Communist government of China was/is Atheistic.

Well by that reasoning I can say you are atheistic as well. You only believe in one god, one religion, you don't believe the thousands of others that have come and gone. That means that we are only a little bit more atheistic than you

(June 26, 2013 at 11:30 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote:

Quote:I was showing the person I was responding to that if religion is brainwashing then Atheism is too. In fact I copied what he said and changed a few words, so you should be asking him these questions, in reverse. You're also assuming God is imaginary. Your bias is showing, but then again, you are an Atheist.

So we're all in the business of brainwashing, but yours is superior to ours? oops, did i let my bias show? So did you! I thought that's what we're all doing!

And quit with the capital A atheist, I don't feel worthy of that.

Quote:Tell all your boys that.

I'm no one's boy.

Quote:But I don't want to derail this thread, it's crazy enough as it is.

There's no rail XD.

Quote:Except Jesus said He was God. Do I really need to bring out all the Scriptures that say that? Please, just trust me on that one because I know how much scorn Atheist hold for Scriptures. Save yourself a throbbing vein in the forehead.

Did you not go to school because you thought it was brainwashing you? I responded to your claims of evolution with scientific evidence and theories. I don't give a shit about your scriptures, you can trust me on that too.

Our brainwashing process might be superior if you look at the numbers. I was just pointing out that if religion is a brainwashing process then Atheism is too.

You said that Jesus was a man, and that Christians are therefore Atheists.

However, Jesus Himself said He was God, and He is worshipped as such by Christians. Therefore, your analogy fails.

Don't get so heated when I mention my Scriptures. I was just pointing out that no one in the Bible, even Jesus Himself, thought He was just a man. Calm down.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:16 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:04 am)pocaracas Wrote: Not all, but at least most are.
Present me with a person who is born and raised with no concept of god whatsoever and, when presented with that concept proceeds to accept it as trustworthy, thus following the religion of the god that was presented to him/her.

Are you truly comparing teaching scientific discoveries about reality with teaching folklore?


Conform or die?
Now now, boy... you're threading on thin ice... go ahead and say the name that TGAC is expecting...

Present me with someone who is born with a concept of God and, when presented with the concept that no God exists proceeds to accept it as trustworthy, thus following the areligion of the person that was presented to him/her. In other words, if religion is a brainwashing process then Atheism is also.

What scientific discoveries disproved the existence of God? Shouldn't you say, "There have been no scientific discoveries that prove the existence of a God." History and archeology are not folklore. Why are you treating those areas of knowledge as red-headed stepchildren?

This thread is evolving at a crazy pace! I can't even reply... others have done so more or less like I would!

History and Archeology have provided no evidence whatsoever for the existence of any god... They do provide evidence that people have believed in several gods.... Last I heard, the count was just shy of 3000 gods, for the whole of humanity's history.
How does a newborn discern which of those 3k gods is the REAL one?... if any!
Brainwashing? indoctrination? parents teaching what they think they know that was taught to them when they were children by other people who suffered the same teachings, who got the same message from other people...?
What makes you so sure your god is the REAL one?

(June 26, 2013 at 11:34 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:27 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Because evolution is biological and transcendant beings aren't. That sounds more like a transhumanist thing, like uploading your mind into a superior android body or something. The only thing biological evolution selects for when you get down to it is reproductive success. We're not going to evolve laser eyes or telekinesis.

Most Theology says that man is more than just a biological being, that he has a soul, which is not made of biological material. If I may, what if the soul exists in a higher dimension that cannot be interacted with by the five senses? If so, why wouldn't our "souls" be evolving also? Eventually it could shed the biological body because it is no longer needed.

Just a thought, and I have nothing to back up any of it except for deductive logic.

Just pointing out that that sort of thing has nothing to do with the scientific concept of biological evolution, which in turn has nothing directly to do with atheism. There are actually atheists who don't accept evolution, and plenty of theists who do.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:38 am)Rationalman Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:18 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Mao was a man, not a god. Worshiping him as a god does not negate the fact that the Communist government of China was/is Atheistic.

Well by that reasoning I can say you are atheistic as well. You only believe in one god, one religion, you don't believe the thousands of others that have come and gone. That means that we are only a little bit more atheistic than you

In conclusion, Christians and Atheists have murdered millions of people throughout history. Therefore, there is no moral authority here in this forum. Let's all get down off of our high horses.

What does the word 'atheism' mean to the OP?

I think clarifying that will help in answering the question.

Quote:Our brainwashing process might be superior if you look at the numbers. I was just pointing out that if religion is a brainwashing process then Atheism is too.

You said that Jesus was a man, and that Christians are therefore Atheists.

However, Jesus Himself said He was God, and He is worshipped as such by Christians. Therefore, your analogy fails.

Don't get so heated when I mention my Scriptures. I was just pointing out that no one in the Bible, even Jesus Himself, thought He was just a man. Calm down.

1. you are a better evidence than the numbers. After today I will never again doubt Christianity's brainwashing capabilities.

2. Yes he said he was so he must be. I see no other explanations too. I really need to rethink this atheist thing.

3. How did you know i say "shit" when i get angry? It's like we've known each other forever.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:27 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Replacing God with a man is what Atheism is from my point of view. You can't see it because you say God was never there to begin with. It seems we are at an impasse on this one.

Please do explain which man we replaced god with, I think i missed that part of my baptism into atheism

(June 26, 2013 at 11:39 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:16 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Present me with someone who is born with a concept of God and, when presented with the concept that no God exists proceeds to accept it as trustworthy, thus following the areligion of the person that was presented to him/her. In other words, if religion is a brainwashing process then Atheism is also.

What scientific discoveries disproved the existence of God? Shouldn't you say, "There have been no scientific discoveries that prove the existence of a God." History and archeology are not folklore. Why are you treating those areas of knowledge as red-headed stepchildren?

This thread is evolving at a crazy pace! I can't even reply... others have done so more or less like I would!

History and Archeology have provided no evidence whatsoever for the existence of any god... They do provide evidence that people have believed in several gods.... Last I heard, the count was just shy of 3000 gods, for the whole of humanity's history.
How does a newborn discern which of those 3k gods is the REAL one?... if any!
Brainwashing? indoctrination? parents teaching what they think they know that was taught to them when they were children by other people who suffered the same teachings, who got the same message from other people...?
What makes you so sure your god is the REAL one?

What makes you so sure there is no God? Did your misguided parents make you suffer from the same teachings?

Look folks, most of what you are accusing Christians of is Atheists do too. This is turning into a school yard fight based on who has the most koodies.