(June 26, 2013 at 11:18 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Mao was a man, not a god. Worshiping him as a god does not negate the fact that the Communist government of China was/is Atheistic.

The point is that Communism, especially as it was practiced by China and the former Soviet Union, had all the trappings of religion. Prophecy, scripture, black-and-white ideology, fanaticism, and the promise of a "worker's paradise" that seems every bit as unlikely as your Heaven.

Not all religions have a god. Buddhists don't. Taoists don't.

And I think you'll find most people here apply the same skepticism to political and ideological claims as we do to religious claims.

And I repeat, no culture ever committed atrocities because they were just too skeptical and too inclined to critical thinking.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:34 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Most Theology says that man is more than just a biological being, that he has a soul, which is not made of biological material. If I may, what if the soul exists in a higher dimension that cannot be interacted with by the five senses? If so, why wouldn't our "souls" be evolving also? Eventually it could shed the biological body because it is no longer needed.

Just a thought, and I have nothing to back up any of it except for deductive logic.

The scriptures may not help you here but take a look through D.C. comics. There has to be something of the kind there.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:27 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Tell all your boys that. Most Atheist assume, and at least one has in this thread, that religion causes wars, suffering, strife, etc.

Religion has caused wars, suffering and strife. This can easily be demonstrated, but no one can claim that all wars, suffering and strife are caused by religion. You cannot; however, provide one example where people were caused to suffer or subjected to war because the aggrieved simply believed in a god. Belief in the wrong god is a different story, but belief in the wrong god by definition makes it a religious issue.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:43 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote:

Quote:Our brainwashing process might be superior if you look at the numbers. I was just pointing out that if religion is a brainwashing process then Atheism is too.

You said that Jesus was a man, and that Christians are therefore Atheists.

However, Jesus Himself said He was God, and He is worshipped as such by Christians. Therefore, your analogy fails.

Don't get so heated when I mention my Scriptures. I was just pointing out that no one in the Bible, even Jesus Himself, thought He was just a man. Calm down.

1. you are a better evidence than the numbers. After today I will never again doubt Christianity's brainwashing capabilities.

2. Yes he said he was so he must be. I see no other explanations too. I really need to rethink this atheist thing.

3. How did you know i say "shit" when i get angry? It's like we've known each other forever.

1. Personal insults outside the scope of this discussion, you must be getting desperate.

2. You said Jesus was a man, therefore Christians are Atheists. I said that He Himself said He is the original Creator God, and He is worshiped as God by all Christians. Mao was worshiped as a god-man. That is a big difference.

We weren't even talking about whether Jesus is conclusively God. I never said He was conclusively God based on His own words. You really need to follow the context better than this.

3. ?

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(June 26, 2013 at 11:44 am)Rationalman Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:27 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Replacing God with a man is what Atheism is from my point of view. You can't see it because you say God was never there to begin with. It seems we are at an impasse on this one.

Please do explain which man we replaced god with, I think i missed that part of my baptism into atheism

My bad, I meant man as a whole.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:44 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Look folks, most of what you are accusing Christians of is Atheists do too. This is turning into a school yard fight based on who has the most koodies.

That is true, but it doesn't matter who does it. It matters why they do it. In the bible, people do bad things in the name of god. Atheists do bad things. Thats just it, they don't do it in the name of atheism, they just do bad things because they are bad people.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:45 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:18 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Mao was a man, not a god. Worshiping him as a god does not negate the fact that the Communist government of China was/is Atheistic.

The point is that Communism, especially as it was practiced by China and the former Soviet Union, had all the trappings of religion. Prophecy, scripture, black-and-white ideology, fanaticism, and the promise of a "worker's paradise" that seems every bit as unlikely as your Heaven.

Not all religions have a god. Buddhists don't. Taoists don't.

And I think you'll find most people here apply the same skepticism to political and ideological claims as we do to religious claims.

And I repeat, no culture ever committed atrocities because they were just too skeptical and too inclined to critical thinking.

There are some Atheist fanatics on this very forum, and the answer some have given to my question is to see a world without religion. Sounds like the trappings of religion to me.

Denying Atheism is a world-view, or religious in nature, seems like a way to deflect attention from yourselves to what you think is a contradiction, flaw, or downright "evil" intention of a religion or religious person.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:48 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:44 am)Rationalman Wrote: Please do explain which man we replaced god with, I think i missed that part of my baptism into atheism

My bad, I meant man as a whole.

We didn't replace anything. In some cases we threw it away, in others, it was never there to start with

(June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: You are assuming that all religious people are brainwashed, or that religion itself is a brainwashing process. However, what are you teaching your children about religion, God, how the universe came to be? I would suspect you are "brainwashing" them with Atheism, evolution, and the Big Bang theory.

This was an interesting comment, and I apologize for taking so long to get to it. You suspect incorrectly. Atheists have a highly variable approach to child-rearing, because atheism (nor theism) has nothing to say about child-rearing, because the only thing it is about is lack of belief in God(s). Because of the tendency for Western atheists to be freethinkers, humanists, and/or rationalists; it's common (though by no means universal) for atheists in the USA to encourage their children to come to their own conclusions about God(s) and religion, letting their children know that their love is not conditional on them being atheists. Some go so far as to take their children to services in different houses of worship or join up with the Unitarians because their religious education program teaches about the different religions of the world without requiring belief in one of them. If you value independent thinking, you don't squash it in your children, though they have a natural tendency to imitate their parents when very young, and an equally natural tendency to avoid imitating their parents when teenagers. I count myself among those who prefer to let children come to their own conclusions regarding the reality of deities. And even if you really, really want your kids to be atheists, I think cramming it down their throats will be counterproductive in the long run.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:46 am)cato123 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:27 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Tell all your boys that. Most Atheist assume, and at least one has in this thread, that religion causes wars, suffering, strife, etc.

Religion has caused wars, suffering and strife. This can easily be demonstrated, but no one can claim that all wars, suffering and strife are caused by religion. You cannot; however, provide one example where people were caused to suffer or subjected to war because the aggrieved simply believed in a god. Belief in the wrong god is a different story, but belief in the wrong god by definition makes it a religious issue.

War, strife, and suffering can be attributed to greed, lust, arrogance, pride, and vengeance, which (shocker) religious people suffer from, as well as Atheist. Whether it is a Christian, an Agnostic, or an Atheist holding the gun makes no difference. However, most religions try to eliminate these negative thoughts and emotions in people. It seems religious and Atheistic goals are compatible.

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(June 26, 2013 at 11:54 am)Rationalman Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 11:48 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: My bad, I meant man as a whole.

We didn't replace anything. In some cases we threw it away, in others, it was never there to start with

I beg to differ, but that is what makes us different isn't it?

(June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: There are some Atheist fanatics on this very forum, and the answer some have given to my question is to see a world without religion. Sounds like the trappings of religion to me.

I'm a Doctor Who fanatic, I want everyone in the world to watch it. It must be a religion then.