(June 26, 2013 at 12:16 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 12:13 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: Who says that all atheists parents would withhold information about religion from their children?

They would never experience their parents praying with them, reading the Bible (in my case), teaching Bible studies, worshiping in Church and at home, and doing good deeds for the example of love Jesus has shown us. They would lack all of those experiences. Therefore, they are brainwashed, according to the running definition in this thread.

You seem to suggest that when my lawn needs watered I should take my children into the yard and perform a rain dance in addition to teaching them about the hydrologic cycle.

(June 26, 2013 at 12:18 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods. An Atheistic house would lack pictures, texts, knick knacks depicting a God or gods. In other words an Atheistic house lacks religion. In contrast, a Christian's house has those things, and has religion.

There's no reason why a house that belongs to an atheist (which is what I presume you mean by 'atheistic house')can't have items associated with religion in it. The definition of atheist is not 'eschews ownership of pro-theistic materials'. I have three Bibles and a Qu'ran in mine. If you owned no religious items, it would not mean your house belongs to an atheist. Houses can't have or lack religion, they can only have or lack relgiious items.

(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Tell me how a child growing up in an Atheistic house wouldn't be "brainwashed" simply by their surroundings and their parents personalities by the lack of religion. The opposite is ascribed to me and my ilk like we're some kind of perverts for teaching our children our religion.

If you're not putting pressure on someone to believe (or not believe) what you want them to, the term 'brainwashing' doesn't apply, because that's what brainwashing is. If an atheist or theist parent puts pressure on their children to hold a particular viewpoint; what they're doing can reasonably be described as brainwashing...although I think the term should be reserved for a more concerted effort, like punishing them for not believing what you tell them to. Making a conscious effort NOT to put pressure on one's child to believe a certain way cannot reasonably be described as brainwashing. There's no such thing as inadvertant brainwashing.

The pressure would be applied indirectly, regardless of direct pressure. Children usually don't like to disappoint their parents (brainwashing), unless they hate you, so an Atheist daughter would feel uncomfortable and possibly ashamed bringing her evangelical Christian preacher boyfriend home to meet the parents. I know my daughter would feel that way about bringing an Atheist boyfriend home, and it would have nothing to do with her flashbacks of me beating her with a rod for not reciting John chapter 5 three time a day, which I don't do.

So, you never disappointed your parents at all with any misdeeds?

(June 26, 2013 at 12:22 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods. An Atheistic house would lack pictures, texts, knick knacks depicting a God or gods. In other words an Atheistic house lacks religion. In contrast, a Christian's house has those things, and has religion.

Tell me how a child growing up in an Atheistic house wouldn't be "brainwashed" simply by their surroundings and their parents personalities by the lack of religion. The opposite is ascribed to me and my ilk like we're some kind of perverts for teaching our children our religion.

Do you have pictures, texts and other religious articles from all faiths?

For the record, there are three Bibles in my house. This does not include various translations or theological works that are on my Kindle. I have a prominently displayed plaque of the Serenity Prayer (if you ignore the invocation of God, I consider it a great piece of wisdom).

Parents have the ability to teach their children anything they wish. Although I won't call the individuals perverted, some pervert the child's education when learning is stifled by fealty to a particular dogma. The prime example is when creationist Christians (not all Christians are creationists) shelter their children from a proper education regarding evolution, geology, cosmology, etc. because it is at odds with the description of events provided in Genesis.

Years ago you would be the guy saying I am sheltering my children because I am not giving them the proper education on Flat-Earth geology. Look, Science is flawed because it is performed by men. I shouldn't have to expose my children to such things if I choose not to. The Bible has a pretty solid track record, whether you believe it or not.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: There are some Atheist fanatics on this very forum, and the answer some have given to my question is to see a world without religion.

That is a goal of anti-theism, not atheism.

(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Sounds like the trappings of religion to me.

I find it amusing that so many theists grasp at tu quoque as their favorite criticism of atheism. I don't see how using 'you're just a religion' doesn't play into the hands of the anti-theists in the long run.

But which trappings of religion are we talking about? Cremonies, prayers, sacred spaces, mystic symbolism, folk narratives, clergy, scriptures, festivals, funerary services special music, moral teachings, ritual obligations...where does 'would rather theism didn't even exist' fall in there?

(June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Denying Atheism is a world-view,

It's a single opinion on a single topic, not enough to make a world view in itself. Atheists have world views, atheism isn't their world view, it's just one feature of their world view. The same is true of theism. We don't deny it's a world view for any other reason than that it is inaccurate to say that it is.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: or religious in nature,

Theism isn't necessarily religious in nature either. It takes more than the notion that some sort of God(s) exists to be religious.

(June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: seems like a way to deflect attention from yourselves to what you think is a contradiction, flaw, or downright "evil" intention of a religion or religious person.

In the West, there is a tendency for atheists to be grammar and spelling nazis. That has a lot more to do with our opinions on the meanings of words than some strategic endgame we came up with in a secret meeting as a step in our long-range goals. I'm religious myself (Unitarian Universalist), Q.E.D.

(June 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm)Dragonetti Wrote: So, you never disappointed your parents at all with any misdeeds?

Did I indicate I didn't? I was a little hellion. I got paddled daily by my mom, my teacher, and the principal.

Arguments we've heard before. Science changes as we learn new things. Flat-Earth geology was religious base. Religion is base from text written in the Bronze Age. Please tell what else society uses from the Bronze Age?

(June 26, 2013 at 12:04 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Because atheism is the default position. It doesn't teach anything. You can't brainwash people if you don't teach them what to think. Atheism teaches you how to think.

Teaching critical thinking skills teaches how to think. It's easy to identify atheism with all the things that tend to be associated with it in the West, but remember that technically, Jains and Raellians are also atheists.

(June 26, 2013 at 12:32 pm)Dragonetti Wrote: Arguments we've heard before. Science changes as we learn new things. Flat-Earth geology was religious base. Religion is base from text written in the Bronze Age. Please tell what else society uses from the Bronze Age?

Bronze?

Quote:Years ago you would be the guy saying I am sheltering my children because I am not giving them the proper education on Flat-Earth geology. Look, Science is flawed because it is performed by men. I shouldn't have to expose my children to such things if I choose not to. The Bible has a pretty solid track record, whether you believe it or not.

Some examples for this solid track record please. And quote me a textbook that says science is perfect.

it's like saying humans can never build a flying machine because it's flawed, let's not even try. But look we have planes now. They're flawed. Does that mean we shouldn't acknowledge the things they can do? do you not use soap? modern medicine? or do you pray when you get sick? should your children not have the option of going into the field of medicine if they so wish in the future? Because they won't be able to if they don't learn basic science when they're young, however flawed that is.