Faith: (n) - The warm fuzzy feelings humans get when that something will happen because they wish it so. (in christianity If the thing they have faith about fails, its the thing's design.

(July 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Consilius Wrote: Moses killed one man in his entire lifetime. That's not mass murder. You blatantly ignored or overlooked everything I just said and said exactly what you said before.

Why are you lying to people who care only for the truth? You can't tell us with a straight face that Moses only killed one person. What about all the other people that he or others killed whilst carrying out his orders? No more sugar-coating.

Fine.. Fuck Moses. You believe in the biggest murderer of all: God. I guess it makes sense that you don't feel bad about all the senseless killings in that old book of fairy-tales.

(July 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Consilius Wrote: On Elijah cursing children in 2 Kings 2:23-24.
They weren't children. The Hebrew word neurim qetannim means "young man": between the ages of 12 and 30. Isaac was in his early twenties when he is nearly sacrificed in Genesis 22:12, and Joseph is seventeen in Genesis 37:2.

Children. Men. Fuck it, it doesn't matter that he killed grown men as long as they weren't children, right?

(July 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Consilius Wrote: Elisha had finished revoking an Joshua's earlier curse on the nearby city of Jericho (Joshua 6:26) by making its water clean (2 Kings 2:19-22). Elisha was a prophet, a representative of God, as he had proven not long ago, and the insults were not going to him but to the God he stood for. This isn't very surprising, since he was traveling through an area of Israelite pagan worship (1 Kings 12:32). These men, if not pagan priests themselves, were pagan worshippers.

So you insult someone and that warrants death? I'm surprised GC is still alive!

(July 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Consilius Wrote: Elisha responded to this threat to his prophetic mission by cursing them in the name of the God he stood for, and the one they were insulting. There is no evidence he prayed for any type of punishment at all, rather, God executed the curse by sending bears to maul them. That 42 of these men were captured and mauled by two bears suggests that there could have been many more people gathered against this one man.
This wasn't playful teasing from a few kids, but a mass gathering of pagans against a prophet.

Was it a threat or an insult? It seems the author of this website doesn't get his facts straight anyway, so why should I bother to listen to what he/she has to say?

I saw an insult, and that's I'm going with. They got cursed for dealing out an insult, and God enacted the curse with two female bears. Then 42 children/men/midgets sat around while waiting their turn to get mauled. If there were more people, the passage doesn't say, so now you're just speculating on a storybook. What a relief; I'm still not convinced of anything new except that you still like to sugarcoat these bible stories in order to make them seem more appealing to people who aren't already brainwashed.

Excuse my harsh tone, but I've pulled an all nighter, and people lying to me makes me cranky enough already.

This site made me LOL though, so you lightened my mood a bit.
http://christianthinktank.com/qmeanelisha.htm

(July 7, 2013 at 11:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: Let me put it this way, you believe what you wish, it's your choice. I will believe what I will, it's my choice, and we'll see who lives with God for eternity, that way you can argue with God about this matter of why you were wrong.

So, essentially your answer to the question "why are you right?" is "I'm right."?

Quote:Hoe old are you 12-13 because you act that age. I've told you before I do not deal in speculation about my life and will not for you or anyone else, it's a childish thing to do, you need to forget it I'm not going there. I do not know what Catholics believe about babies other than they should be baptized so they will go to heaven if they should die. I do not believe it's necessary, so either way the babies are in heaven and that's what's important.

Well, good job even considering the possibility that you don't know absolutely everything. You're doing a great job appearing to be rational and not at all a gigantic ego wrapped in human skin.

Quote:According to scripture if your sleeping with dudes you're living in sin and unrepentant sin will land you in hell, whether you claim to be a Christian or not. See, I said you did not understand salvation and you do not, salvation is by the grace of God not by anything you can do.

I can go to the church up the road and get told that I can go to heaven, dudesex or not, if only I'll accept christ. Prove to us that your view is the correct one.

GC Wrote:The issue has always been the truth of scripture. The content of the believer's mind should be the truth received from God through scripture. Making the words of the Bible extremely important, just because this truth of God does not suit you does not make a bit of difference.
Here you are saying you're an expert on God's word, so bring the proof of your statement, I'll be waiting.

I never said any such thing. What I did say, if you were paying attention, is that it's fairly easy to find interpretations of the scriptures that differ wildly from yours. And all of which are said with utter conviction, just like yours.

So, why is your interpretation the right one, and why are they wrong?

GC Wrote:Your ignorance of the word of God and salvation makes that statement... well let's say you have no idea what your talking about. You can make all these silly assertions you want, but until you can bring some intelligent thought into this I'm done.

Prove that your position is reflective of reality.

GC Wrote:I do not know what they claim, any church that would do hateful acts as they do should come into question, they do with most of the Christians I know and probably all, I haven't asked all of them. If that's their view they will have to live with it, there are others who claim the same, I can't change them, doesn't matter I will be in heaven.

How do you know? What is your proof that you have it right and they all have it wrong?

Quote:I can't help how others believe, they've made their choice. I do not agree that a person being gay will get them a date with the devil, a gay can be a Christian, however they can not act upon their desires of wanting to be with someone of the same sex, that God says is an sinful act.

Is it the act, or the thought, that gets you into hell? Matthew 5:28, again. How do you know your position here correlates with reality?

Quote:Ask what, you need to be clearer.

If I were to ask any given preacher, regardless of the content of their preaching, how they know they have it right, most likely they'll tell me personal experience. Some are on record doing so, even when their positions contradict one another. How do I know who has it right?

GC Wrote:If you want to discuss the Bible then you need to read it, if you do not read it how are we to have a discussion. There was nothing to answer, I've been waiting on a sensible question from scripture.

You've yet to provide a shred of proof that your position is correct, beyond simply asserting it. Why don't you do that first? Else all we're doing is speculating meaninglessly.

GC Wrote:I do not know anyone who disagrees with the way I came to salvation, do you? If an experience does not line up with the truth of scripture it was not real.

And what's the truth of scripture? What you say it is? How do you know you're right?

I could keep going, but what's the point? You steadfastly refuse to let us in on anything that might be considered evidence, so... why should any of us take you as anything other than a raving lunatic?

(July 8, 2013 at 8:49 am)Esquilax Wrote: I could keep going, but what's the point? You steadfastly refuse to let us in on anything that might be considered evidence, so... why should any of us take you as anything other than a raving lunatic?

I read a Xian blog earlier this morning, and the guy basically said that he won't submit any evidence to his claim that there is a God because there is no evidence. He acknowledged that Atheists have a higher standard of evidence, which is true.

Bottom line: I can accept his line of reasoning, simply because he took the time to reason. He actually made the atheists who replied to his blog look like assholes. I respected his point of view because he was rational about the fact that he could not comply with the evidence that was asked of him. It made me wonder why other Theists can't take a page out of his book.

(It's still too bad to see that he couldn't posit the question to himself about what the case might be if he was wrong. At least he wasn't scared of his position.)

http://dailyreflections-matthew.blogspot...ocent.html

(July 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Consilius Wrote: Moses killed one man in his entire lifetime. That's not mass murder. You blatantly ignored or overlooked everything I just said and said exactly what you said before.

You know what? I couldn't just leave this one alone. The biblical Moses is a Mass Murderer. We agree that murder is bad, and even if he did just kill one person, why should he get a pass from his god?

The Many Murders of Moses

Exodus 2:12 Moses murdered an Egyptian and hid his body.

Exodus 32:27-28 Moses Levi ordered all the sons of Levi to slay their own family, friends and neighbors; Moses murdered about 3,000 of their own relatives, God's Own chosen.

Numbers 21:33-35 God ordered Moses to do to King Og as he had done to others. Moses struck down the King's sons and all his people until none were left and took possession of his land.

Numbers 31:14-18 Moses was angry at the Generals and Captains of the army and asked: Why have you kept all these women alive? Now, kill every male-child as well as every woman who has had sex with a man. But, the young girls who have not had sex with a man, you may keep alive for yourselves. God's army killed every male child and the soldiers took 32,000 girls who were still virgins for themselves.

Deuteronomy 2:34 Moses led more mass murdering of women and children.

Deuteronomy 3:2-7 (Moses said): God delivered Og and we murdered 60 cities of men, women and children until none remained. We took all the livestock and booty for ourselves.

Moses is a documented mass-murderer of men, women and children to fulfill God's personal agenda to steal and occupy their land. Moses' "perfect / loving / never-changing" God ordered all the mass-murdering and the theft of the land.

Is this your perfect, never-changing "God Of Love"? It's a yes or no question.

http://www.thegodmurders.com/Moses.html

Faith is what you have when you don't have evidence.

Faith is the most dishonest thing you can have. Entire nations are misled because of faith.

Kudos to downbeatplumb for reminding us about the topic at hand here.

(July 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Godschild Wrote: With that you proved how childish you are, how's that.

BWS Wrote:Once again you are at odds with the consensus, this time in reference to your thoughts about how childish you think I am.

In reality, I've not proven how childish I am. In fact, you have once again made another claim. I will ask, how does this prove that I'm childish? With you ignoring my urging for you to prove I'm not Batman, you have hurt your own case even more. It's another case of the 'la la la I can't hear you's.

Anyone who believes he's Batman is either one with a childish mind or one with a mind that needs help.

(July 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're a most dishonest person, And because you are I see no reason to converse with you. I used tangible for my self and even qualified that I did. Yet you left that out to suggest I had proof, most dishonest, most!!

BWS Wrote:You agreeing with yourself doesn't qualify a thing. You're also the only one to agree that I'm dishonest, btw.

Just because no one else has chimed in has nothing to do with your dishonesty. You manipulated what I said into something I didn't say, do you call that a honest action?

BWS Wrote:I find it hard to believe that you don't have anything to say to me. Your whole off-putting demeanor is testament to the fact that my questions are too hard for you to deal with, and so you try to swat me away like a fly.

You make yourself a target, and swatting flies gets rid of those pesky critters. Bring some mature questions to the discussion if you are seeking answers.

BWS Wrote:Well, if it were that easy, then you shouldn't even have to say anything to me in the first place. Why do you hold my words to you as a threat when all I'm doing is trying to get to the bottom of your disregard for evidence, logic, and finding the facts? Circumventing facts just to appease some entity you can't possibly know is real is the true lie.

Prove to me I can't possibly believe in God, because you haven't the desire to see the truth doesn't mean the truth is not there. I circumvent nothing, you want logic and facts that everyone will recognize to prove the spiritual, good luck with getting everyone to agree on anything.

BWS Wrote:If you weren't scared that perhaps God isn't real, then nothing we say should even affect you. You should not be reacting so in such a volatile manner to anything we say to you. If you're so certain, then act like you are instead of like a little coward. And if you're scared, investigate those fears.

You think what you have to say would discourage me, someone with no proof that I'm wrong, now you're trying to be funny, right.
The only ones that are cowards are those who will not open the Bible and investigate, why is it you are afraid of what the scriptures have to say to you?

(July 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Godschild Wrote: Anyone who believes he's Batman is either one with a childish mind or one with a mind that needs help.

Oh goodness...it took you this long to finally play along. You're right: anyone who claims that he or she is Batman is delusional, just like anyone that claims there is an invisible Unicorn in the room. I can see that leading you to reason is like pulling teeth out of an angry hippo, but it can be done.

However, calling me childish for positing the question to you is a little insulting. Oh no, I'm not the one insulted. The only thing insulted here was your intelligence until you finally realized why I was saying that I was the caped crusader.

Do yourself a favor and don't jump to an illogical conclusion about what someone is saying before you've analyzed what is being said more thoroughly. We may be able to actually get along if you do just that, and I hope that we can.

Now...can we continue our adult conversation, or are you going to start name-calling again?

(July 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Godschild Wrote: Just because no one else has chimed in has nothing to do with your dishonesty. You manipulated what I said into something I didn't say, do you call that a honest action?

I don't believe I was dishonest in backing you into a corner. No. There was only one way to answer, and you decided not to answer. Your cowardice instead led you to the conclusion that I was doing something evil to you, so you called me another name.

I threw out the Bible and the Holy Ghost as evidence, then I asked for your tangible proof. I did not twist any of your words (you can check back in my post for that). Now...can you please present your evidence, or are you going to skirt around these questions all day long?

(July 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Godschild Wrote: Prove to me I can't possibly believe in God.

Are you KIDDING me? I'm NOT asserting that there isn't a God. If you think I'm making such a claim, then you are delusional!

Buddy...heh...YOU are the one claiming there is a God.

The Burden of Proof is ON YOU

Fuck yeah.

(July 7, 2013 at 8:32 pm)Godschild Wrote:

BWS Wrote:...if you're scared, investigate those fears.

You think what you have to say would discourage me, someone with no proof that I'm wrong, now you're trying to be funny, right.
The only ones that are cowards are those who will not open the Bible and investigate, why is it you are afraid of what the scriptures have to say to you?

What I'm saying is meant to ENCOURAGE you. I would never discourage someone from opening their mind and investigating the truth. Why the hell would I or any truth-promoting free thinker do that? I don't have a vendetta to destroy you; no, I have the HUMAN DECENCY to try and give you a motive for rational thought.

Again...asking for my proof that you're wrong.

GC, I don't owe you any proof. I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm saying that you have an outrageous claim, and the claim is that there is a god, and that this god is the god of the Bible. First, you have to prove that there is a god. That's ALL you have to do.

(July 7, 2013 at 11:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: Let me put it this way, you believe what you wish, it's your choice. I will believe what I will, it's my choice, and we'll see who lives with God for eternity, that way you can argue with God about this matter of why you were wrong.

Ration Wrote:Wrong again. You do not choose what you believe. That is impossible.

I understand why a closed minded person like yourself would believe you can not make simple choices, that in your mind absolves you of sin. For me however I can make choices and do daily, I feel sorry for a person who lives life without hope, hope you see comes from choice.

Ration Wrote:I did not choose to be an atheist, it came around as a result of the evidence. I did not think: 'hmmm, this is how I choose to interpret the evidence' Its just how I think and you cannot change how you think. Indeed, I have heard atheists honestly say that they want to believe in God, but they just can't.

I've heard atheist say the same thing, excuse me for not believing them. If you believe life just leads you around by the nose then why try, run and hide before it brings bad things your way, cower behind the boulders with your head between your knees. Don't look up life may be hanging over your head with something bad you can not refuse, good luck with that idea of life.

Ration Wrote:I'm not sure about you but many Christians don't actually choose at all. Their parents are Christians therefore they teach the bible and christianity as truth. Therefore the children believe them.

So believing is not a choice, children are taught about Christ and Christian parents know their children have to make their own choice if they are to be saved. Most children grow out of Santa Clause before they become Christians, they know how to rationalize, sorry but you just do not get it.

Ration Wrote:Another example (although different in concept) of absence of choice in beliefs. Why not wait until the child is old enough to think about these things and see which religion they would choose (if any) when they have more of a perspective on the world? (rehtorical question)

Responsible Christian parents allow their children to decide when the Holy Spirit calls, which by the way only the person being called knows it, so the parents have to trust their children on this matter. True answer.

---

@ Esqulax, you believe what you wish, you've been presented the Gospel of Christ, what you do with it is your choice and yours alone, consider carefully your eternity is not reversible.
I'm tired of your childish ways, responding to you i like talking to a post, I'm doing as Jesus said, dusting off my feet and leaving you with yourself.