If there are no connections, we have a pile of metal. A machine does work and cannot do so if the metal does not compose its parts.
Sodium chloride is neither sodium nor chloride. The universe is life, stars, Mars, and space, all of which retain their attributes.
Light is not an inescapable element. It can be there, or it cannot, in different wavelengths and varying amounts. It is a variable, not a component of anything.
Atoms are not invisible. Concepts are invisible. We can see atoms if we have a microscope. Atoms would be huge to an organism small enough with functioning eyes.

Quote:We can see atoms if we have a microscope. Atoms would be huge to an organism small enough with functioning eyes.

Eyes. Multi-atomic, multi-molecular, multi-celled organs seeings atoms. That, is hypothetical.

A microscope requires magnification beyond 10 ^ -3 BY FAR. Micro is only 1 of many bases of ten (or thousand) into the negative exponents. Try femto at 10 ^ -15 meters. Now, I am not calling You out on your choice of wording, We do not use femtoscopes We do use microscopes. Yet I have this thought that You are thinking of atomic-level particles to be much larger than they are.

(July 16, 2013 at 11:06 pm)Consilius Wrote: If there are no connections, we have a pile of metal. A machine does work and cannot do so if the metal does not compose its parts.

But metal does compose its parts and even without the connections it'd still be a machine.

But, since this simple concept regarding the identity of an object seems to be above your understanding, let's simplify the matter. The unbreakable fragments are joined together by unbreakable nuts and bolts made of the same unbreakable metal - is the machine unbreakable now?

(July 16, 2013 at 11:06 pm)Consilius Wrote: Sodium chloride is neither sodium nor chloride. The universe is life, stars, Mars, and space, all of which retain their attributes.

The sodium atoms and the chlorine atoms retain their attributes within the compound - and yet those attributes are nowhere to be seen in the whole

(July 16, 2013 at 11:06 pm)Consilius Wrote: Light is not an inescapable element. It can be there, or it cannot, in different wavelengths and varying amounts. It is a variable, not a component of anything.

We are fixing it to a certain value. The attributes of the parts still disappear in the whole.

(July 16, 2013 at 11:06 pm)Consilius Wrote: Atoms are not invisible. Concepts are invisible. We can see atoms if we have a microscope. Atoms would be huge to an organism small enough with functioning eyes.

Actually, you can't see them the way you see other objects. So they are invisible.

If the nuts and bolts produce unbreakable joints, our machine will be unbreakable.
Neither sodium nor chlorine retains its original attributes because they are a compound—an entirely different chemical. Had they not chemically bonded, they would have remained poisonous.
Water becoming blue is conditional. You cannot say that all bodies of water are inherently blue. A completely isolated element makes them so. It takes both water and light for water to become blue.
An atom can be seen by a human eye. That is what visibility is.

(July 16, 2013 at 11:49 pm)Consilius Wrote: If the nuts and bolts produce unbreakable joints, our machine will be unbreakable.

And what would be the reason for joints made of unbreakable nuts and bolts not to be unbreakable itself?

(July 16, 2013 at 11:49 pm)Consilius Wrote: Neither sodium nor chlorine retains its original attributes because they are a compound—an entirely different chemical. Had they not chemically bonded, they would have remained poisonous.

Oh, but the sodium and chlorine atoms to retain their original attributes.

(July 16, 2013 at 11:49 pm)Consilius Wrote: Water becoming blue is conditional. You cannot say that all bodies of water are inherently blue. A completely isolated element makes them so. It takes both water and light for water to become blue.

Exactly my point. Even knowing the attributes of the parts, you cannot predict the attributes of the whole. Which means, the whole need not have the same attributes as its parts.

(July 16, 2013 at 11:49 pm)Consilius Wrote: An atom can be seen by a human eye. That is what visibility is.

The image of atoms can be seen - the same way that, given the right devices, an image of air currents can be seen. Both air and the atom still remain invisible.

If the joinage of bolt and metal fragment is not done properly, we have a breakable joint.
Sodium and chlorine don't retain their attributes (e.g. being poisonous) because they have chemically bonded into something else. They come together to form one thing, whereas the universe has caused the formation of many things, all which retain their original attributes.
Light is a part in the case that the water appears blue. The whole reatains attributes shared by the parts, and if it doesn't, there is a part that no one has taken into account yet.
Air and atom are only invisible under certain conditions. If there is any possible way they can be seen (e.g. by an incredibly small organism), they are not inherently invisible, unlike logic or a concept, which cannot be seen under any circumstances.

(July 17, 2013 at 12:26 am)Consilius Wrote: If the joinage of bolt and metal fragment is not done properly, we have a breakable joint.

So that means the joint can be breakable even though it is completely composed of unbreakable material? How interesting.

(July 17, 2013 at 12:26 am)Consilius Wrote: Sodium and chlorine don't retain their attributes (e.g. being poisonous) because they have chemically bonded into something else. They come together to form one thing, whereas the universe has caused the formation of many things, all which retain their original attributes.

Since you are just repeating yourself, I will as well. Sodium and Chlorine atoms, which make up the salt, do retain their attributes. And yet, that attribute disappears in the whole.

(July 17, 2013 at 12:26 am)Consilius Wrote: Light is a part in the case that the water appears blue. The whole reatains attributes shared by the parts, and if it doesn't, there is a part that no one has taken into account yet.

If light was the reason for it, then the parts would appear blue under the same light. Clearly, that is not the answer. Try again.

(July 17, 2013 at 12:26 am)Consilius Wrote: Air and atom are only invisible under certain conditions. If there is any possible way they can be seen (e.g. by an incredibly small organism), they are not inherently invisible, unlike logic or a concept, which cannot be seen under any circumstances.

If we are talking about hypotheticals then I hypothesize an animal that can see concepts. On the other hand, the very same conditions under which the atoms are invisible, the whole made of it becomes visible.

Stop dancing around the issue. Stop trying to rationalize your way out of it. All the parts may have attributes that are absent from the whole. The whole may have attributes nowhere to be found in any of the parts. All your feeble attempts to explain exactly how such emergence or disappearance can be explained won't change that simple fact.

NaCl does not retain the attributes of either sodium or chlorine.
Large amounts of water appear blue under light. Smaller ones remain clear.
We are an animal that knows that atoms have physical composition and can be seen. I have seen atoms before and know what they look like. Nothing can see a thought.

(July 17, 2013 at 1:03 am)Consilius Wrote: NaCl does not retain the attributes of either sodium or chlorine.

Exactly. The whole does not retain the attributes of its parts.

(July 17, 2013 at 1:03 am)Consilius Wrote: Large amounts of water appear blue under light. Smaller ones remain clear.

Exactly. The whole does not retain the attributes of its parts.

If sodium is still sodium outside of and within the salt, then we have a whole made of parts. A chemical compound is the creation of an entirely different thing, not a body with parts.

As for water, it needs light to change color, and so you cannot say that water changes color on its own.