Why do you pray? (This is mainly for the theists, obviously.)

It seems to me that prayer, broadly speaking, falls into two general catagories: intercessory prayer (where you ask God to effect a change for you or for someone else) and supplicatory prayer (where you tell God how wonderful he is, or how thankful you are, or some such).

Why bother? If everything which happens is according to God's plan (or God's will, or Divine Providence, or whatever the current buzzword is), then an intercessory prayer cannot possible affect the outcome - what is going to happen has been decided already by God. Furthermore (apos to Ambrose Bierce), isn't it rather arrogant of you to ask God to alter his plans on your behalf, when you've already admitted that you're unworthy to have him do so?

And, since God is omniscient, he already knows that's he terrific and how thankful you are - why do you need to tell him? Seems kind of like if every passenger were to walk up to the bus conductor every two seconds and tell him, 'This is the Number 4 bus.'

That in mind, what is the point of prayer?

Boru

(July 29, 2013 at 5:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why do you pray? (This is mainly for the theists, obviously.)

It seems to me that prayer, broadly speaking, falls into two general catagories: intercessory prayer (where you ask God to effect a change for you or for someone else) and supplicatory prayer (where you tell God how wonderful he is, or how thankful you are, or some such).

Why bother? If everything which happens is according to God's plan (or God's will, or Divine Providence, or whatever the current buzzword is), then an intercessory prayer cannot possible affect the outcome - what is going to happen has been decided already by God. Furthermore (apos to Ambrose Bierce), isn't it rather arrogant of you to ask God to alter his plans on your behalf, when you've already admitted that you're unworthy to have him do so?

And, since God is omniscient, he already knows that's he terrific and how thankful you are - why do you need to tell him? Seems kind of like if every passenger were to walk up to the bus conductor every two seconds and tell him, 'This is the Number 4 bus.'

That in mind, what is the point of prayer?

Boru

*Channels Drich* Christians don't pray to make formal requests to god or to kiss his ass, they do it change their own minds and will and desires into something in line with god's will. *Channels Drich*

*Shudders*

*Goes off to take a shower*

People pray for various reasons. To make themselves feel special and superior; as a parting "Yeah? Well, fuck you!" at the end of discussion; as a way of salving their consciences that they can't, or can't be arsed, to actually do anything practical; to let a person know that they're at least being thought of, even though whatever pain that person is going through cannot be helped. What's most revealing is that whichever breed of prayer is being used, nobody has any confidence that it can possibly have the slightest effect unless the subject of the prayer knows about it in advance. Otherwise where's the satisfaction in the game?

I've told this story many times, unfortunately. Back in the day when my Princess and I were trying to conceive, we used to have people, well-meaning as they undoubtedly were, 'assuring' us that they'd pray for us. It never worked - if anything, it had the opposite effect. When we began our IVF treatment, those same people again said they were praying for us. It didn't take. Sam remained unpregnant, yet those same people sympathised with us and said they would pray for our loss. Sorry, but what exactly was the point here? I already know these people have a special club which makes them feel part of something important; they already know I won't buy it. The only explanation that seems to fit is that praying, in this context, is something to say when they can't simply say nothing - a kind of theistic Tourette's. I'm only thankful that none of the pious bastards have even so much as tried to pray for having my sweet Sam stolen from me. Small mercies and all that.

Prayer is a way of making people in helpless situations feel like they can actually do something useful.

Um, to appease that narcissistic butt plug in the sky? Without Jesus getting his daily rusty trombone from the pious, his subsequent temper tantrums could cause tornadoes, you know.

Thanks, fundies! (I can't stand the taste of holy shit, personally.)

That begs the question as to why a perfect, all-powerful deity needs to be constantly reminded by its creation that it's so great.

He's insecure.

(July 29, 2013 at 12:03 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: That begs the question as to why a perfect, all-powerful deity needs to be constantly reminded by its creation that it's so great.

Welp, he is the jealous type, he admits...so insecurity isn't too far a leap, I suppose.

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(July 29, 2013 at 12:11 pm)Minimalist Wrote: He's insecure.

Ding, ding, ding!

I mean, really.... what "Supreme Being Who Created the Whole Fucking Universe" needs this shit 5 times a day?




No. This is the creation of men who want to control people.

(July 29, 2013 at 5:24 am)genkaus Wrote: *Channels Drich* Christians don't pray to make formal requests to god or to kiss his ass, they do it change their own minds and will and desires into something in line with god's will. *Channels Drich*

*Shudders*

*Goes off to take a shower*

I had no idea I am so formidable that should I just stop praying, the will of the creator of the universe will be thwarted.