(August 14, 2013 at 4:13 pm)pocaracas Wrote: First off... I'm not the bit least angry at any god.
It is my understanding that all gods that humans worship or have worshiped in the past are, most likely, made up by some humans.

So, if any god does exist and does present itself for me to ask it whatever I want...

All of this stuff is in the bible here is what God says:

Quote:- What are you?

He told Moses "I am the alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of all things."

This phrase demonstrates two primary things. God is the ultimate authority as He does not answer to anything higher than He, and "I am that I am" Means He is whom ever He wants to be. (No stupid paradoxes with that.)

Quote:- How did you come to be?

"coming to be" binds one to linear time. God existed before time began @ the point of creation. You see creation is the start point for all thing with in creation itself. God is outside of creation and thus does not need a start point.

Quote:- What is the meaning of life,

Choice. To choose where you wish to spend eternity. Either in service of God, or eternally separated From God.

Quote: the universe, and everything?

We are told by Christ that He goes to prepare a place for us, and that when we get to heaven we get job/task/responsiablities.

Keeping this in mind along with the fact that our time under God is infinite, and the universe is infinite, it will be the place where we work and live.

If we get to explore it in starships I call dibs on "enterprise."

Quote:- Did you create this Universe?

In the creation account we are told yes.

Quote:- If yes, did you create any other universes?

if by universe you mean dimension I say yes. Because Christ said His 'Kingdom' is not of this world, and revelations points to a 'new Heaven and a New earth' once we are done with the stuff that is to go on here.

Quote:- If yes, what are the differences between them?

Heaven, Earth, Hell I'm sure your aware of them

Quote:- Is the vacuum speed of light a real maximum speed for anything in this Universe?

lol, no. google 'black holes' and how they effect light/time.

Quote:- How do you make universes?

with a big bang!

Quote:- What is time?

Merrium Webster defines it as the measure of one moment to the next.

Quote:- What is your source of energy?

How do you know God works on energy?
If He did I would say love. As that is the primary focous we have been directed to share and preserve. Love God, and Love each other.

Quote:- Can you impart on me the ability to perform real magic?

If you had the ablity to do 'real magic' it cease being 'real magic.'

Think how babies are born. Is that magic? do you think you could do it without any of the elements we currently use, and consider common place?

Quote:- Are there any more like you?

There is only one God.

Quote:Finally, the greatest one:
- What do you think of the religions that humans have made up; and of all the ways they have managed to attempt to describe you?

Most of them do what they can, but few have heard how He describes Himself.

Quote:PS: can't wait to see if Drich can answer any of these on it's behalf....

The wait is over, now I can't wait to see what you do with these answers.

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(August 14, 2013 at 4:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 4:16 pm)Drich Wrote: That is why we have been told to Ask, Seek and Knock. if one adhears to this process 'bad information' will works it's way out of the believers life. If one is lazy and simply and blindly seeks or follows a given denomination of belief because the thinks 'it is The One.' then he and his faith will fail.

Quote:But what if what you've just said is bad information?

1Thess 5:21. Question all things and hold on to what is good. Keep Asking Keep Seeking and Keep Knocking, and find out for yourself.

(August 14, 2013 at 3:17 pm)Drich Wrote: Sin is not the road map to Christianity. Sin is the only important in so far as to indicate the need for repentance and salvation.

You're missing the point. There are many disagreements among all of the "Christ centered interpretations," so each one can't be true. I feel, however, there is a different point you're trying to make but just haven't communicated it properly.

None of us has it absolutely right. Look at the parable of the talents mat 25 starting at verse 14.

Christ only expects us to be responsiable to what we are given/given over to understand. So in a sense. All version of Jesus Christ Christianity are indeed 'right' for a time, but as you grow spiritually you will start to see the chinks in a given religions doctrine, so you are expected to A/S/K and find another stepping stone to learn from, and on and on till you develop a truly personal relationship with God. Where you can take your 'stuff' to God and He will resolve personally with you. When one gets there is is expected to turn and teach others how to get where he is at.

The problem with most of you guys as you began to spiritually mature and saw the chinks in your childhood religions, you turn and ran from it because you are under the impression that only one version of Christianity can possiably be right. Just think about that for a second. The Same God that established Christianity established Judaism. The difference? Judaism is packed with rules, to the point where there is no question in who or what a OT jew is. If God wanted one 'right' version of Christianity then why didn't He give us the rules???

Answer: Because it is not about the rules anymore.. In so far as how to get it 'right.' The rules are only there to show us we all have it completely wrong all of the time. (Even me.) So we are to give up, and seek attonement. with attonement we only have these three principles: Love God with all your being, Love your neighbor as yourself. Do the best you can with what you have been given, and God will give you more.

That is it, that is all. Everything falls under those three principles, and even the third falls under the first two, but I thought it bears repeating.

(August 14, 2013 at 10:35 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 4:13 pm)pocaracas Wrote: First off... I'm not the bit least angry at any god.
It is my understanding that all gods that humans worship or have worshiped in the past are, most likely, made up by some humans.

So, if any god does exist and does present itself for me to ask it whatever I want...

All of this stuff is in the bible here is what God says:

Translation: Assuming you want to know what the christian god says -and agree that the bible has any bearing on what that god thinks- then the answers to all your questions can be found in the bible.

Comment: That's a lot of ifs but mighty generous of you to track them down for those interested in the bible-based Christian god.

(August 14, 2013 at 10:35 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 4:13 pm)pocaracas Wrote: - What are you?

He told Moses "I am the alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of all things."

This phrase demonstrates two primary things. God is the ultimate authority as He does not answer to anything higher than He, and "I am that I am" Means He is whom ever He wants to be. (No stupid paradoxes with that.)

Can't answer for Poca but if we could ask a god in what its essence is to be found I would find those answers unsatisfying. Saying God is the ultimate authority is just saying he is the chief, mega-boss, over-lord. Interesting if one was checking credentials but not very helpful for understanding what God's nature might be. Also, to say he can be whoever he wants to be makes me think of the Matrix. So you're saying God can just replace anyone else's essence like the guys in the black suits? Good trick, but again, not terribly responsive.

(August 14, 2013 at 10:35 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 4:13 pm)pocaracas Wrote: - How did you come to be?

"coming to be" binds one to linear time. God existed before time began @ the point of creation. You see creation is the start point for all thing with in creation itself. God is outside of creation and thus does not need a start point.

Don't you realize how hollow it is to toss off a stock answer like that? What really does that mean and how do you know it's true? Wait - I know! The bible! Amirite, amirite?

(August 14, 2013 at 4:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote: But what if what you've just said is bad information?

1thess 5:21 says: Question all things and hold on to what is good. Which means here Keep A/S/K and find out for yourself.

Quote:You're missing the point. There are many disagreements among all of the "Christ centered interpretations," so each one can't be true. I feel, however, there is a different point you're trying to make but just haven't communicated it properly.

No one has it right, not completely, at the same time no one has it wrong completely. We have been tasked to simply Worship and do our best using all we have been given to make that happen. Look at the parable of the talents in Mat 25. There is not a absolute standard in which all three servant are expected to perform to a given standard across the board. Rather each one was expected to perform only in accordance to what he was given.

This parable paralells our comprehension of the bible/God and ablity to serve and worship. As we Grow Spiritually it is quite possiable we will begin to see the chinks in the doctrines of the religion of our childhoods. As such we are expected to A/S/K to find a brand of Christianity that will help us grow to the next stage of our Spiritual relationship. But because most of us are under the impression that only one version can be correct when we start to see the chinks we loose faith, simply because we do not understand the very basics of Christianity.

Think about it. The God of the bible established Judaism as well as Christianity. In Judaism there are so many rules that there is no doubt who or what makes an OT Jew. Christianity is not that way, why? Because it is not about the worship of law, but of the freedom to worship with all of your being. which because we are all different our worship will manifest itself differently from person to person. Hence 30,000 different expressions of Christ centered Christianity.

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(August 14, 2013 at 10:31 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Ignorance is causing you to argue for the sake of arguing. All Christianity is based on an interpretation of the Bible, so you can't convince us that yours is the right Christianity. Before we can even consider your Christ, you need to remember that you must demonstrably prove God first. This is not the last time you will hear this, but I'm sure it's also not the last time you'll ignore it.

Ah, no. Christ said not all who call them selves 'Christian' are. Only those who do the will of the Father. Meaning it is not possiable to be born into Christianity, as it is an active choice to do the will of the Father.

You are confusing 'christianity' the religion/man made crap, with what Christ Identifies as the 'Church' or rather Christianity

Christ makes it very clear that there is a very sharp divide between the man made religious crap, and what He has done for The Church/Christianity.

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(August 14, 2013 at 11:02 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 10:35 pm)Drich Wrote: All of this stuff is in the bible here is what God says:

Translation: Assuming you want to know what the christian god says -and agree that the bible has any bearing on what that god thinks- then the answers to all your questions can be found in the bible.

Comment: That's a lot of ifs but mighty generous of you to track them down for those interested in the bible-based Christian god.

Indeed, but that is what we are all here for amiright? amiright? After all we are in the 'christian' section of the this website, so it follows you are indeed looking to discuss 'The Christian God.'

Quote:Can't answer for Poca but if we could ask a god in what its essence is to be found I would find those answers unsatisfying.

I didn't know God's Job was to give you an answer that satasifies you.. I believe the unapproachably simple answer He gives denys the lazy atheists the satasfication of trying to muddle it up with the same 'can god create a rock too heavy for him to lift' crap you all are known to surround yourselves with. It is the simple things God uses to confound the wise and learned of this world.

Quote:Saying God is the ultimate authority is just saying he is the chief, mega-boss, over-lord.

Indeed!

Quote:Interesting if one was checking credentials but not very helpful for understanding what God's nature might be. Also, to say he can be whoever he wants to be makes me think of the Matrix. So you're saying God can just replace anyone else's essence like the guys in the black suits? Good trick, but again, not terribly responsive.

Have you not read my matrix thread?

Quote:Don't you realize how hollow it is to toss off a stock answer like that? What really does that mean and how do you know it's true? Wait - I know! The bible! Amirite, amirite?

If we are speaking of the God of the bible then what other source material has greater authority?

That Like saying Drich defineThe word: "matrix" and then mock me for going to the dictionary... I don't get it. If you want proper information then one is bound by actual reference material.

In this case the bible is the only authority one can speak of the God of the bible.

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why aren't my posts posting?

(August 14, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 11:05 am)Thor Wrote: I'd want to know where he came from.

To come from somewhere denotes one's place in creation. God existed before creation therefore God did not 'come from somewhere.'

My point exactly!

Thanks again for everyone putting in their two cents on this question.

I read every post, and wish I could answer all. But I just don't have the time lately. I've been very busy. And somewhat scatter brained, as some here would gleefully agree! I did enjoy reading most of your posts! Very entertaining!

Anyhoo... What I got for answers, and a general consensus is the following according to popularity:

1. the Christian (and possibly other) God is not a welcome vehicle.
2. God's lack of involvement in our lives.
3. a curiosity about just what God is/does/did etc.
4. a disdain for any idea of a deity.

I'll start with the least and work up....

4. Personally, I think that anyone who has a negative view of any idea a deity exists, has a problem. I'm not saying that they are beyond changing their attitudes... but I don't see much hope. And it's usually in a sarcastic, immature manner which is hard to reason with, or even converse most times.

3. Here is common ground! Curiosity is human nature: We all want to know! Obviously there are many, MANY things we don't know. And God would theoretically have all the answers. I really enjoy exploring this realm with most of you. I've had some very intelligent and stimulating conversations with 3 or four of you, and its appreciated!

2. I think we could "all" agree here sometimes too! But, here's where our (Christian) faith comes into play. And also where the divide starts to widen. Two or 3 of you have expressed being neutral on God's involvement, "if he exists". But questions do rise about "why" all the pain, suffering, blood and tears. And honestly... we as Christians would be fools to say we know "completely" why. But, there are very many things in our power [as humans] to actually change ourselves. Sans the OT God, most of modern-day problems can be attributed to us! A lot of good could happen, if we united to do just that.

1. Ok.... Here's where the ax falls! The major complaint from most is Christianity. But, is it Jesus? Or, is it the religion that evolved around Him?

I didn't hear a negative about Jesus himself. I'll be the first to agree that the Catholic religion has, and will probably always have problems. But, what organization doesn't? That's not an excuse! Unfortunately, Catholics and Christian religion draws many troubled people. But the double edged sword is that we are also trying to help them as followers of Christ! Believe me, I wish Jesus could send a blessing of healing and peace to these people. I pray and hope that He will.

This then gets to the reasons we are followers of Christ. LOVE. I won't preach to you here, but let me just say that we as people have the power to help and love each other. And probably (over time) eradicate every disease, ailment and problem known to man! But, we will never conquer Death, or sin! Jesus did that for us! And that my friends is the basis of our Christian faith.

Thanks, this was a fun thread! Keep it comin'. R

Lots of interesting and pertinent questions. And our very own god to answer them - wow, how lucky are we!

My own questions, then, for this "God" of the OP would be:

Are you ever embarrassed at the poor calibre of your followers?

If not, why not?

(August 15, 2013 at 12:13 am)Thor Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Drich Wrote: To come from somewhere denotes one's place in creation. God existed before creation therefore God did not 'come from somewhere.'

My point exactly!

Either you believe in infinity or you believe in an uncaused cause. Which one do you stand behind?

(August 15, 2013 at 12:27 am)Undeceived Wrote:

(August 15, 2013 at 12:13 am)Thor Wrote: My point exactly!

Either you believe in infinity or you believe in an uncaused cause. Which one do you stand behind?

By infinity, you mean infinite regress, yes?

The jury's out on both.

Oh wait, that's a third option. Kind of blows your false dilemma there.

(August 15, 2013 at 12:34 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(August 15, 2013 at 12:27 am)Undeceived Wrote: Either you believe in infinity or you believe in an uncaused cause. Which one do you stand behind?

By infinity, you mean infinite regress, yes?

The jury's out on both.

Oh wait, that's a third option. Kind of blows your false dilemma there.

Your third option is to not pick an option? You have just blown my mind.

(August 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm)Drich Wrote: I didn't know God's Job was to give you an answer that satasifies you.

Seems only fair. After all, he has given one that satisfies you.

(August 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm)Drich Wrote: It is the simple things God uses to confound the wise and learned of this world.

Until you can make the case that there is any god involved, I would say what we have here is a case of the lazy, uncritical interpretations of the simple believers doing all the confounding of the wise. Your bible is kind of like the Emperor's new cloths. You cloth yourself in it and think you are wearing sublime wisdom. But to the rest of us it looks like you're just obtusely repeating your favorite gems whether or not they have any bearing on what is at issue.

(August 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 11:02 pm)whateverist Wrote: Saying God is the ultimate authority is just saying he is the chief, mega-boss, over-lord.

Indeed!

Glad you enjoyed that. But for those of us who really want to take advantage of the opportunity afforded us by Ronadee's thought experiment, hearing once again that being tiny and helpless before God is all you need to know isn't helpful. If I get to chat with God over a latte, I'm sure not going to waste it on issues like who is in charge. So long as I have free will (OK, back off you determinist/haters), I think I will be in charge of my half of the conversation .. thank you very much.

(August 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 11:02 pm)whateverist Wrote: Interesting if one was checking credentials but not very helpful for understanding what God's nature might be. Also, to say he can be whoever he wants to be makes me think of the Matrix. So you're saying God can just replace anyone else's essence like the guys in the black suits? Good trick, but again, not terribly responsive.

Have you not read my matrix thread?

I don't think so but I do think there is much to recommend that story over the bible. Shall we stick with that one?

(August 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 14, 2013 at 11:02 pm)whateverist Wrote: Don't you realize how hollow it is to toss off a stock answer like that? What really does that mean and how do you know it's true? Wait - I know! The bible! Amirite, amirite?

If we are speaking of the God of the bible then what other source material has greater authority?

Who said anything about that character? Ronadee said a god, not the god of the bible. Even if we go with the Christian god I can't let you get away with citing the bible without first hearing why we should believe it has anything whatsoever to do with the Christian god.

(August 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm)Drich Wrote: If you want proper information then one is bound by actual reference material.

In this case the bible is the only authority one can speak of the God of the bible.

Sounds like the argument the drunk makes for looking for his watch under the street lamp. There may be no more chance of finding information pertaining to the Christian god in the bible than there is of finding the watch where it wasn't lost, but hey it sure is nice to have actual reference material. Best of all, if you just accept the bible lock, stock and barrel, you will have answers to all life's questions which won't cost you one bit of effort. Just by taking a wild leap onto the back of the bible, you too can turn your wishes (I mean, beliefs) into hard knowledge supported by scholarly reference materials.

No sale. I'll need to see the bible's bonafides before I'll accept that anything in it has anything whatsoever to do with the God you all claim to be in relationship with.