(August 15, 2013 at 9:33 pm)Drich Wrote: This is also found to be true in Christianity. This era was known as the dark ages.

Interesting that the period when religion ruled is known as "The Dark Ages", and the period when science and reason took hold is called "The Enlightenment".

Quote:As most of you started out in a church of some kind as as you spiritually matured you saw the flaws in your religions, and left God because you assumed that God was completely represented by what you started out believing.

Actually, I didn't "leave God". Since this deity is imaginary, there was nothing to leave. And being dragged to church is what set me on the path to atheism! As I matured, I discovered there were other religions with beliefs completely different from my own. I began to question why this was. Wouldn't "God" instruct people on how they were to behave and what rituals they were to perform? Then why so many different belief systems? And if other religions were wrong, why should I think that my religion was right? Why couldn't they ALL be wrong? Because they most certainly can't all be right. This was the seed that eventually resulted in my conclusion that religions are crap and the deities they worship are not real.

Quote:Being born into a religion can be a blessing or it can be a curse. It depends on the person.

Being born into a religion is never a blessing. The kid is led to believe that incredible nonsense is true. At a minimum, this causes the child to grow up and waste their time and money going to church. At worst, it leads to ignorance (like believing the Earth is less than 10,000 years old) and life threatening stupidity (like praying for a cure instead of seeing a doctor, or refusing blood transfusions).

(August 15, 2013 at 9:33 pm)Drich Wrote: Being born into a religion can be a blessing or it can be a curse. It depends on the person.

Thought for moment there you were going to say "depends on the religion".

(August 15, 2013 at 12:19 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(August 15, 2013 at 12:25 am)ronedee Wrote: I didn't hear a negative about Jesus himself. I'll be the first to agree that the Catholic religion has, and will probably always have problems. But, what organization doesn't? That's not an excuse! Unfortunately, Catholics and Christian religion draws many troubled people. But the double edged sword is that we are also trying to help them as followers of Christ! Believe me, I wish Jesus could send a blessing of healing and peace to these people. I pray and hope that He will.

Hey, a man speaking against the estabishment cut down in his prime by haters and government flunkies...what's not to like in that story?

Actual Christianity might have wound up having more in common with Jainism than Islam if it hadn't been turned into Paulianity. If not for Paul, maybe Christians would still take the most original moral teaching of the Gospels, turning the other cheek, seriously.

But not having much of a problem with Jesus has nothing to do with whether he was divine.

Look at it this way. If you said you worshiped Angra Mainyu, we might say 'Why are you worshiping Anra Mainyu? There's no good evidence that he's real, and even if he were real, he's evil!' If you said you worshiped the good god Spenta Mainyu, we'd just say 'Why are you worshiping Spenta Mainyu? There's no good evidence that he's real.'

Any irritation we may have with Christians or Christianity doesn't bear on our probability evaluation of a proposed supernatural being. Any more than it has a bearing on your probability evaluation of Zorastrian divine beings being real. If more Christians tried to live up to the best moral teachings of Jesus (Quakers seem to make a sincere effort, as a rule), we wouldn't consider the supernatural claims of Christians more likely to be true. We'd just get along with them better...and they'd get along with us better.

That said, kinder Christians would create fewer atheists, because failing in morality is sometimes the first crack in the edifice that starts a Christian on questioning their faith. It's not that the 'you had a bad experience with Christians scenario' is NEVER the case...it's just that even when it is, the deconversion story only starts there. If it ends with the person becoming a rationalist, it's too late to get them back by fixing the booboo. If it ends with them being some kind of New Age thing, they might still be a viable target for that method of reconversion.

Excellent analogy!

But, Jesus said: "I am the [way], the [truth] and the [life]. No one comes to the Father except [through] me."

He also said: "Love one another as I have loved you."

Jesus states "ideals", and the [way of life] that would be necessary to enter the kingdom of God.

There is no ego there. Or anything that says you must follow "me"!
Jesus only alludes himself as the Father, or equal to God on 2 or three occasions in the gospel.

I don't believe there is any false god, or prophet that has used Jesus' doctrine to promot their own godhood. If they did, they would look pretty impotent.

No, Jesus was about the simple "truth" in our lives. And that "Love" is the key to what God is really about.

We can argue the points about our existence here on earth, and whether God made the right decisions about just how to manage His people.

But, [my unwavering faith aside] I'd rather err on the side of there being a God.... because if there indeed is one? The alternative sucks!

Here is a hypothetical conversation between God the Father, and Jesus.[Son] "Father, I want to share our true essence, divinity and love beyond ourselves. I want to magnify and glorify you with abundant love from a creation!" [Father] "Son, to bestow our essense and divinity on any independent creation, would be to oppose. [Son] "Father, I will share in this creation, and show them the way to you!" [Father] "It is done."

If creation is based on Love... Jesus is the ultimate!

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[quote='ronedee' pid='493793' dateline='1376681054']

If creation is based on Love... Jesus is the ultimate!

[quote]

If

(August 16, 2013 at 3:24 pm)ronedee Wrote: But, Jesus said: "I am the [way], the [truth] and the [life]. No one comes to the Father except [through] me.".....


.....There is no ego there...

Lemme guess...I'm guilty of cherry-picking? :p

(August 16, 2013 at 3:24 pm)ronedee Wrote: But, Jesus said: "I am the [way], the [truth] and the [life]. No one comes to the Father except [through] me."

He also said: "Love one another as I have loved you."

Don't you mean "Jesus is alleged to have said"? Because we have no writings from Jesus himself. And who is supposedly reporting what Jesus supposedly said? Because the authorship of the gospels is pretty much unknown. Not to mention that nothing was written about "Jesus" until DECADES after he supposedly died. I could be just as accurate in saying, "Paul Bunyan said..."

ronedee Wrote:I don't believe there is any false god, or prophet that has used Jesus' doctrine to promot their own godhood.

What about this guy?

Quote:and left God because you assumed that God was completely represented by what you started out believing. Which is good for a young child but not so good it seems if/when you grow.

Why don't you try growing then. Maybe you'll come to see your bullshit for what it is.

(August 16, 2013 at 3:24 pm)ronedee Wrote: But, [my unwavering faith aside] I'd rather err on the side of there being a God.... because if there indeed is one? The alternative sucks!

An appeal to Pascal's wager is in a word: pathetic

Quote: I'd rather err on the side of there being a God

Only works if it is your god. Vishnu might rip your head off.