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RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
August 27, 2013 at 3:26 pm (This post was last modified: August 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm by CleanShavenJesus.)
(August 27, 2013 at 2:41 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:
(August 27, 2013 at 12:55 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: Part of believing in God is knowing a basic rule required to be followed by all who believe:
1. God just is. He is all. His existence is immune to the inquiry of origin. His abilities and attributes are immune to logical laws.
Once convinced of this, they think the following to be quite obvious,and in fact feel quite confident in fabricating the following...
2. God is the origin of all things. Logical laws are prescribed by him. No ability or attribute held by God can be rationally understood by man.
The third rule is excersised quite frequently here, which is:
Any objection to rule 2, refer to rule 1.
God doesn't have an origin, I keep having to repeat this point for some reason.
Quote:"Why can't the universe not have an origin?"
1) The universe began to exist
2) If there are physical laws that created the BB they all began to exist effected by a cause as well
3) You have to start the ball rolling from somewhere else the ball would never roll
4) You need an explanation for anything/everything that exists that begins to exist
Honestly, are you reading back everything you type before you submit it? Why is it that the universe must have a beginning, but God is allowed to have always exsted?
You keep saying it's impossible for the universe to just be. You want a beginning to it. But it's possible for God to just be? There's no beginning of/for him? On what grounds can you say this? Why doesn't God have to follow the four "laws" you put out for the universe?
ronedee Wrote:Science doesn't have a good explaination for water
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
August 27, 2013 at 3:48 pm
(August 27, 2013 at 3:26 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: You keep saying it's impossible for the universe to just be.
The universe began, everything exist and is physical began. Everything that begins is caused by something that made it begin. So it can't just be nothing can just be if it was made by something else that's the point. What you're suggesting isn't logical or practical.
Quote:You want a beginning to it.
EVERYTHING that physically exists ANYWHERE that ever came into existence had a BEGINNING there are NO exceptions. None. Ever.
Quote:But it's possible for God to just be?
Yes because God doesn't physically exist and nothing made him begin to exist, he is the cause and everything else is an effect from a cause. It's not just me asserting this as my own opinion this is deduction. This is what we can know. You don't take this on faith you take this as logic.
Quote:There's no beginning of/for him? On what grounds can you say this?
You can't have an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect etc forever because each effect would have been produced by an infinite number of other effects but no effect would ever have been produced to start with if it took an infinity of things to happen in order to get to whatever it was that did happen. There can only be a finite number of effects and everything has to start from one cause. This cause is God.
Quote:Why doesn't God have to follow the four "laws" you put out for the universe?
God made the four laws to begin with, he is the cause of everything that exists including all the physical laws.
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
August 27, 2013 at 3:50 pm
(August 27, 2013 at 3:48 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: EVERYTHING that physically exists ANYWHERE that ever came into existence had a BEGINNING there are NO exceptions. None. Ever.
Then what was your god's beginning? No exceptions, remember.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
August 27, 2013 at 3:54 pm
(August 27, 2013 at 3:50 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Then what was your god's beginning? No exceptions, remember.
God is the cause of all things that begin to exist not the exception. Unless you're saying nothing caused everything to exist? But then nothing would exist would it? Think about this one.
RE: Attn: Theists - What would it take to prove you wrong?
August 27, 2013 at 3:55 pm
(August 27, 2013 at 3:48 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:
(August 27, 2013 at 3:26 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: You keep saying it's impossible for the universe to just be.
The universe began, everything exist and is physical began. Everything that begins is caused by something that made it begin. So it can't just be nothing can just be if it was made by something else that's the point. What you're suggesting isn't logical or practical.
Quote:You want a beginning to it.
EVERYTHING that physically exists ANYWHERE that ever came into existence had a BEGINNING there are NO exceptions. None. Ever.
Quote:But it's possible for God to just be?
Yes because God doesn't physically exist and nothing made him begin to exist, he is the cause and everything else is an effect from a cause. It's not just me asserting this as my own opinion this is deduction. This is what we can know. You don't take this on faith you take this as logic.
Quote:There's no beginning of/for him? On what grounds can you say this?
You can't have an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect, of an effect etc forever because each effect would have been produced by an infinite number of other effects but no effect would ever have been produced to start with if it took an infinity of things to happen in order to get to whatever it was that did happen. There can only be a finite number of effects and everything has to start from one cause. This cause is God.
Quote:Why doesn't God have to follow the four "laws" you put out for the universe?
God made the four laws to begin with, he is the cause of everything that exists including all the physical laws.
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