(August 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(August 27, 2013 at 5:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Question: why do you keep referring to this god as a "he"?

I can equally well say she if you prefer? You certainly can to refer to God as a woman.

Not a question of my preference, though if you are really interested I usually refer to it as "imaginary". I was just curious as to why you keep assigning a masculine pronoun to what you are arguing as a supposedly fundamental force behind the Universe. Bonus points for not immediately hiding behind the xtian bible.

(August 27, 2013 at 5:34 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: If he does not exist, there is no reason to believe in him.

He is real in the same way as your own consciousness is real but with nothing else in association with it, no tangible form of any kind. He is immanent within everything he created and also utterly transcendent beyond the created realm of physical matter/energy/time/space. If you take all the objects, things and creatures that exists in all of the universe, all of the multiverse and all the realms of everything that exists everywhere God won't be one of those objects in existence. God is the creator of all existence and is therefore the cause of everything. Nothing creates God and without God nothing would exist that exists.

(August 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(August 27, 2013 at 5:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Question: why do you keep referring to this god as a "he"?

I can equally well say she if you prefer? You certainly can to refer to God as a woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah

The one married to Mark Dreher?

Quote:

(August 27, 2013 at 5:33 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: OMG, something got through!

Yes, god doesn't exist. Wasn't really the point people were pushing for, but yes, great progress.

Doesn't exist in a tangibly defined state as an object with any properties or dimensions, anything you can see or measure. Anything of that nature that exists God creates through the cause of an effect. He is the guy who sets the ball rolling, he is the first cause.

Quote:Sadly, you contradicted yourself right in the same sentence.

God is something of a contradiction. It doesn't mean he is a fairy-tale it means he is a contradiction.

Did you read what you just wrote?

(August 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: He is immanent within everything he created and also utterly transcendent beyond the created realm of physical matter/energy/time/space.

It is easy to create god as one wishes him to be when there is no proof that he actually exists. Simply stating your biased characteristics of what you think defines god does not make him real.

Man creating in his mind that which does not exist has been happening since the beginning of humanity, and your god is held to the same logic to which everything else imaginary is held. If there is no proof for its existence, logically there is no reason to assume that it does.

(August 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Doesn't exist in a tangibly defined state as an object with any properties or dimensions, anything you can see or measure.

So, you're trying to convince us that a non-tangible, non-existent entity with no properties that could possibly ever be measured, who exists (assuming that that word even makes sense in this context) outside of space and time and has no cause itself, is the ultimate cause of all reality?

And you wonder why you're having such a hard time? hock:

(August 27, 2013 at 5:09 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(August 27, 2013 at 4:04 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: Oh, yes. If God does exist, then you would be correct in saying this. But, you and I would still be taking this on faith, not logic.

This is logical deduction I've taken you through the steps a million times. Everything that exists has been caused by something that exists but not that which caused everything to exist. This is logic and has nothing whatsoever to do with faith of any kind at all. You just work this out to the only valid conclusion it is possible to come to in light of the evidence. The evidence being that created things are an effect of a cause. You can not have an infinite series of effects that go back forever without there ever being within that chain of effects any one first cause. Where the flipping heck does faith come into this? You don't take this on faith this is rational, logical deduction that you can figure out by yourself. People of ancient cultures were able to figure this out most notably the philosophers of ancient Greece. The emphasis here being that they did not base this conclusion on faith, also bear in mind that there lived in a polytheistic culture that was not influenced by the Bible. Forget all about faith for moment and just think about this logically.

Please respond to my entire post before I address this. Thank you.

One wonders if he realizes that to be contradictory is to be illogical. Yet, he thinks he can make a case for same using logic.

Curious.

How do you know that there is an intangible god? He or she is unobservable, so you shouldn't actually be able to know anything about him or her.

(August 27, 2013 at 5:52 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Not a question of my preference, though if you are really interested I usually refer to it as "imaginary". I was just curious as to why you keep assigning a masculine pronoun to what you are arguing as a supposedly fundamental force behind the Universe. Bonus points for not immediately hiding behind the xtian bible.

God doesn't have a physical gender but has feminine and masculine natures to his/her character/nature. God isn't a blind random force but a being and we are in the image of this being. This is why we have ability to reason, to think in terms of ethics and morality and so on. If you take science that is derived from our ability to understand the universe in which we live and harness the natural forces of Gods creation. The creation isn't some kind of random collocation of atoms but was formed out of an initial constructive order. We are the intended outcome or effect of this process God set into motion as the first cause or prime mover.

Some of us have the ability to reason. You got bit on the ass by the Law of Non-contradiction a few posts ago.