(August 29, 2013 at 5:26 am)Esquilax Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD9MtIma5YU

Is that you?

If so, damn, I wish I was a hot and sexy female.

(August 29, 2013 at 5:26 am)Esquilax Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD9MtIma5YU

Hey! What this guy is saying is much like what I wrote a few posts ago!

(August 29, 2013 at 5:28 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Is that you?

If so, damn, I wish I was a hot and sexy female.

If that was me, I wouldn't be spending quite so much time online. My real physical husk is far more pallid and vile.

No, that's Scott Clifton, soap opera actor and generally intelligent youtuber. He is a looker though, for sure.

---

(August 29, 2013 at 5:43 am)pocaracas Wrote: Hey! What this guy is saying is much like what I wrote a few posts ago!

Everything's better with visual aids, dude.

*Looks around
Are you talking about you?

Goddamned Aussies thinkin they're not hot an shit..

Get a room, you two!

Oh...nevermind! :p

I do not understand why so many atheists simply fall back and say you can't prove there is no god, when the "prove there is no god" bit is put forward by christian. When christians say prove there is no god, they mean prove the christian god isnt real. Not the unfalsifable deist god. So in short you can't prove there is no god in the since the deist cl;aim can not be falsified, but every holy book can be proven fallacious.
I posted more on it here
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20609.html

Like your signature

(August 2, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Golbez Wrote: So I've long dabbled in theological debate, and watched a number of them on youtube as well. One line of questioning has piqued my interest. Atheists know what would convince them that God is real. There is established criteria for which we could not deny the existence of God - his holy presence manifested in some unambiguous, obvious godly form, before a reasonable audience (easy thing to do if you, say, occupy the vast majority of the sky over the US, for example), performing any number of supernatural feats that defy the laws of physics.

I disagree. If God were to manifest in this way, it could be interpreted as another manifestation of natural law, in fact, it would be. Scientists would seek the unknown forces that led to the appearance of God. If God appeared in this way, it would be made manifest in physical reality, and therefore subject to scientific scrutiny.

What you are positing is a certain conception of God: an intelligent being that can manipulate natural law at will (its own will). As I said, this very thing could and should be viewed as another manifestation of God's natural law, since it exists in the material world. You are positing, in effect, a molecular basis for God. Some religions would consider that blasphemous (e.g. those religions that do not permit images of God).

My conception of God is that natural law is God's dominion and in fact, God is natural law (as God is also Love). None of this makes sense physically but that is precisely the point: God and spirituality transcend the material. So the scenario you posit is the same as saying the Earth rotates around the sun. You say "that just happens" due to natural law. I say "God made it happen", because God and natural law are one and the same.

(August 31, 2013 at 4:32 am)amannucci Wrote: I disagree. If God were to manifest in this way, it could be interpreted as another manifestation of natural law, in fact, it would be. Scientists would seek the unknown forces that led to the appearance of God. If God appeared in this way, it would be made manifest in physical reality, and therefore subject to scientific scrutiny.

First of all, welcome aboard. It's always good to have new theist members to debate with.

Second... well, I dunno how much of this I agree with. You're dead right that scientists would begin testing a miracle under the assumption that it occurred under natural circumstances, because we've never before experienced a supernatural one, nor do we have evidence for it. It's a safe assumption to make, but it can be falsified by a supernatural god. After all, things that interact with the physical world can be detected.

Granted, if your god does all these things from beyond some veil of reality through which we cannot detect him, and we simply find no cause for the event in question, that's not sufficient justification for assuming god, but then my question would become: why does god want to hide himself away like that?

Quote:My conception of God is that natural law is God's dominion and in fact, God is natural law (as God is also Love). None of this makes sense physically but that is precisely the point: God and spirituality transcend the material. So the scenario you posit is the same as saying the Earth rotates around the sun. You say "that just happens" due to natural law. I say "God made it happen", because God and natural law are one and the same.

However, your position is much easier to question; if you believe your god uses nature in order to perform his miracles, through what basis have you identified that there is a god behind them at all? Essentially you're adding an extra step to a process that, to your mind, only has natural causes; what evidence have you used to come to the conclusion that god exists? How do you tell which events are supernaturally caused, and which are just natural occurrences happening unguided?

(August 31, 2013 at 4:32 am)amannucci Wrote: I disagree. If God were to manifest in this way, it could be interpreted as another manifestation of natural law, in fact, it would be. Scientists would seek the unknown forces that led to the appearance of God. If God appeared in this way, it would be made manifest in physical reality, and therefore subject to scientific scrutiny.

What you are positing is a certain conception of God: an intelligent being that can manipulate natural law at will (its own will). As I said, this very thing could and should be viewed as another manifestation of God's natural law, since it exists in the material world. You are positing, in effect, a molecular basis for God. Some religions would consider that blasphemous (e.g. those religions that do not permit images of God).

My conception of God is that natural law is God's dominion and in fact, God is natural law (as God is also Love). None of this makes sense physically but that is precisely the point: God and spirituality transcend the material. So the scenario you posit is the same as saying the Earth rotates around the sun. You say "that just happens" due to natural law. I say "God made it happen", because God and natural law are one and the same.

Opinions are like assholes...held tight and potentially smelly.

Without proof, yours amounts to wishful thinking. Most here would and will argue critical thinking is a better strategy, but to each his own, I reckon.

Welcome to AF! Nice to see a theist with the ability to form complete sentences!