(September 7, 2013 at 10:50 am)Godschild Wrote:

(September 7, 2013 at 10:39 am)max-greece Wrote: Not interested in the Epistles - I wanted to see where Jesus stated the dietary laws no longer applied.

AS to what Christ said about what goes into the body that would seem to confirm that he did want to stay with the dietary rules.

Paul changed it on his own.

You must be reading the.... whatever, Jesus said what goes into the body does not make one unrighteous, it's what comes from the mouth, for what comes from the mouth originated in the heart.

Mark 7:15

"Nothing outside a man can make him unclean by going into him. Rather it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean."

I guess that's what you are referring to.

On the other hand it could just be Jesus accepting Gay sex as an option.

In fact isn't that the likelier option - otherwise it would show Jesus as having no understanding of Botulism, Salmonella etc. etc.

If its dietary, however, its in direct contraction to the OT rules - which Jesus clearly stood by on several occasions.

Overall then - with this many contradictions one has to wonder - its almost as if this whole thing is entirely man-made.

(September 8, 2013 at 12:51 am)Godschild Wrote:

(September 7, 2013 at 10:36 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Since, according to you, god is unchanging and Jesus was just clarifying, why didn't Abraham or Moses tell us this in the first place? Why did they lead jews to believe that certain foods would make one unrighteous?

It would be the eating of those foods would be sinful, and sin leads one away from God, I know that might seem nit picking but, it is they way it is.
Why God gave the food laws to the Israelites I do not know, could be God knows something about those foods we do not. These foods were not of limits to them in Egypt and I would bet that the Egyptians had lots of pork. It's also not that God changes, He continues to reveal His plans through Christ.
GC

Why doesn't the bible explain that god has different plans and different rules for different people in different times and places?
At the time of Abraham, what were god's rules for the people of Yámana (Yaghan) and the Kawéskar (Alakaluf) from Patagonia?

If his interaction with mankind and his requirements were varied according to earlier times and places, why died he change and become uniform today?

(September 8, 2013 at 5:01 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(September 8, 2013 at 2:51 am)Drich Wrote: Seriously?

As a parent you tell you kid if you do x one more time your punishment will be Y. They do X and you punish with Y. Is it not then also possible to regret having to punish your kid for what he has done?

Regret indicates a mistake, right? Whenever we feel regret, it is because we have done something, or failed to do something.

Thus your version god is not infallible, right?

Look up the word. It means to feel sadness or disappointed in something that has happened or has been done.

It has nothing to do with a mistake.

Quote:As a parent you tell you kid if you do x one more time your punishment will be Y. They do X and you punish with Y. Is it not then also possible to regret having to punish your kid for what he has done?

Attempts to create analogies between God and human parents are always suspect, for the following reasons:

1. Godly punishments tend to be vastly our of proportion for the sins commited (what human parent would set bears on his children for making fun of an old man's baldness?)

2. God sets unreasonable goals for human beings (such as the proscription on covetousness) and punishes them when they fail. This is essentially the same as punishing a three-years old child for failing to master tensor calculus.

3. God knows in advance what his 'children' are going to do, thus parental-type warnings are superflous.

Specific to the statement quote above, I doubt that God (as usually defined) would be able to feel regret. It is generally accepted that God cannot act in any manner contrary to his nature, so how would it be possible for God to regret ANY action?

I suppose this is just another instance of religionists not really having a clear idea of what they mean when they say 'God'.

Boru

I never fail to be amused by this comment from the second century writer, Celsus. I suppose I should thank Origen for preserving it but he was just a xtian dick.

Quote:"God does not inflict correction on the world as if he were some unskilled laborer who is incapable of building something properly the first time around; God has no need to purify what he has built by means of a flood or a conflagration (as they teach)."

The "pagan" with a higher view of god than the fucking xtians!

(September 8, 2013 at 11:34 am)Brakeman Wrote:

(September 8, 2013 at 12:51 am)Godschild Wrote: It would be the eating of those foods would be sinful, and sin leads one away from God, I know that might seem nit picking but, it is they way it is.
Why God gave the food laws to the Israelites I do not know, could be God knows something about those foods we do not. These foods were not of limits to them in Egypt and I would bet that the Egyptians had lots of pork. It's also not that God changes, He continues to reveal His plans through Christ.
GC

Why doesn't the bible explain that god has different plans and different rules for different people in different times and places?
At the time of Abraham, what were god's rules for the people of Yámana (Yaghan) and the Kawéskar (Alakaluf) from Patagonia?

First of all God's plan was set before creation, so the plan has never changed, God has been revealing His plan throughout history in a progression He has determined is best. Guess what, at the time of Abraham, he was given the law of circumcision, no food laws, no Ten Commandments, but as far as the rest of the people of the world, God had not given them the law of circumcision. This was a law God gave to separate the Israelites from the rest of the world.

Quote:If his interaction with mankind and his requirements were varied according to earlier times and places, why died he change and become uniform today?

This is a question that should have an obvious answer, however I missed this for a while myself. Guess it never mattered to me until the food laws came up here and got me to thinking and listening to God's word.
As I've said God's plan nor God have changed, He has been revealing the plan through history and man in a progression He has determined. God at the time of Abraham gave him the law of circumcision, He did this to set the Israelites apart from all other people, circumcision was not a practice before this time and was only practiced by Israelites until after Christ's ascent into heaven. There were no laws given to the Israelites until they left Egypt, God gave them many laws that would lead to a better relationship with Him. The food laws and the law of two different cloths being sown together and ect. were given to further identify the Israelites as God's people and separated from the other people and their practices in the land they were to posses ie. Canaan. This is why they had laws we find either mysterious or they seem not to make sense.
Enter Christ into the world, God the Father brought Him into the world through His chosen people, as He promised. God revealed His plan through Christ and the plan was for the world, everyone. So those laws that applied to the Israelites, that by the way only applied to them, food laws, circumcision and such, never had to be applied to others because Christ came to the world, for Jews and gentiles alike. All who come to God through Christ are part of His family and this is how God now separates His people from the world.

GC

Oh I see - this isn't change- this is upgrading, like Windows:

Monotheism V1.0 - Akhenaten.
Monotheism V2.0 - Moses.
Monotheism V2.1 - Jesus
Monotheism V2.2 - Mohamed.

Now it makes sense - and he's dropping support for the older versions as he goes along.

Sadly though - with iOS and Android its all now becoming a bit irrelevant (Agnosticism and Atheism).

Not to mention the return of the ancient Greek religion (Unix/Linux).

(September 8, 2013 at 12:57 pm)Drich Wrote: Look up the word. It means to feel sadness or disappointed in something that has happened or has been done.

Yeah, it's really too bad God just couldn't see it coming, right?

(September 8, 2013 at 12:57 pm)Drich Wrote: Look up the word. It means to feel sadness or disappointed in something that has happened or has been done.

It has nothing to do with a mistake.

Wrong. Regret has everything to do with mistakes. The two terms are interchangeable. If one regrets not having taken a particular path, then that could very well be a mistake according to reflection upon the past.

(September 8, 2013 at 11:55 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(September 8, 2013 at 11:34 am)Brakeman Wrote: Why doesn't the bible explain that god has different plans and different rules for different people in different times and places?
At the time of Abraham, what were god's rules for the people of Yámana (Yaghan) and the Kawéskar (Alakaluf) from Patagonia?

First of all God's plan was set before creation, so the plan has never changed, God has been revealing His plan throughout history in a progression He has determined is best...

ooowee! Thats some stretchy apologia! So god's plan didn't change because he planned to change. Because he planed to Evolve with his interactions with mankind.
I guess that works with anyone doesn't it? Obama didn't change from a pro-openness and freedom politician to a NSA loving secrets president because he had planned to do so all along. While arguable from his point of view, it is not arguable from the point of view of the observer, same as god.

From the point of view of man, god has undeniably changed.

(September 8, 2013 at 11:55 pm)Godschild Wrote:

Quote:If his interaction with mankind and his requirements were varied according to earlier times and places, why died he change and become uniform today?

.. God at the time of Abraham gave him the law of circumcision, He did this to set the Israelites apart from all other people, circumcision was not a practice before this time and was only practiced by Israelites until after Christ's ascent into heaven. There were no laws given to the Israelites until they left Egypt, God gave them many laws that would lead to a better relationship with Him.

So the people of the previous generation, god chose not to tell them the "laws that would lead to a better relationship with Him", why not? How fair is it to be judges without the better guidelines of what is required?
If a teacher gave homework and told the latecomers more info on its requirements, would that be fair to the earlier students? No!

(September 8, 2013 at 11:55 pm)Godschild Wrote: The food laws and the law of two different cloths being sown together and ect. were given to further identify the Israelites as God's people and separated from the other people ..

So all knowing god needed help identifying his people? Who was god so concerned with identifying his children? Why is god not concerned with identifying christians today? What would it matter?

(September 8, 2013 at 11:55 pm)Godschild Wrote: This is why they had laws we find either mysterious or they seem not to make sense.
Enter Christ into the world, God the Father brought Him into the world through His chosen people, as He promised. God revealed His plan through Christ and the plan was for the world, everyone. So those laws that applied to the Israelites, that by the way only applied to them, food laws, circumcision and such, never had to be applied to others because Christ came to the world, for Jews and gentiles alike. All who come to God through Christ are part of His family and this is how God now separates His people from the world.
.. GC

Non Sequitur - Does not follow.

OK, school has a set of rules for the students that has been set for years.
The school gets a new principal, who changes some of the rules. One does not say that the old rules were invalidated by the new principal's arrival, nor does one say that the changed rules weren't changed.


By the way, "God's people are now separated from the rest of the world by education reason and derision."