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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 5:44 am
(September 23, 2013 at 1:49 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Actually GC thats not true, the JW's do not call Jesus Saviour.
JWs consider themselves Christians, and they do accept the sacrifice of Christ and his role as the redeemer of mankind. They differ from many Christian denominations in that they believe that Jesus is separate from (and subordinate to) Jehovah god, and that the holy spirit is simply "god's active force." They also believe that if you're not a JW, you're not a real Christian and you're worshiping satan.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 8:10 am
Satan is the desperate xtian deity to counteract the pagan god of the forests.
Quite frankly i would rather have Satan than god on my side. At least Satan won't lie to me nor give me grief for a bet.
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 8:12 am
And given that most of the world isn't christian, if their theology is true then satan is far more effective and successful at what he's striking out to do. Seems like he'd be a safer bet for the end times, based solely on performance thus far.
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 8:18 am
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2013 at 8:53 am by KichigaiNeko.)
 The myth gets my vote Esquilax
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 8:28 am
(September 22, 2013 at 11:08 pm)Esquilax Wrote: [quote='John V' pid='509442' dateline='1379789627']
So, your idea of the garden is like this: god tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree and presents this as the sole rule, Good so far.
Quote:all the while obscuring the host of other rules, his sins, that attract a punishment despite Adam and Eve not knowing they were okay... and your sole justification is that they wouldn't want to do those things anyway.
As A&E had no desire to commit these other sins there was no need for god to address them. It's nonsensical for you to say that God "obscured" something that wasn't even an issue.
Quote:Something you cannot prove, cannot know, and will not admit that you just made up because it's convenient.
Before the fall, god called the creation "very good." The Bible makes it clear that thoughts are sins as well as actions. If Adam had sinful desires, it wouldn't be "very good."
Quote:"You can do whatever you want, except the things that'll anger me. What things? Oh no, I ain't telling you! Just stay away from my tree!"
And you think this is okay? Would you accept this behavior from anyone else?
Yes, I think it's OK not to warn people against doing things that they don't desire to do.
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 8:33 am
(September 23, 2013 at 8:28 am)John V Wrote: (September 22, 2013 at 11:08 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (September 21, 2013 at 2:53 pm)John V Wrote: So, your idea of the garden is like this: god tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree and presents this as the sole rule, Good so far.
Quote:all the while obscuring the host of other rules, his sins, that attract a punishment despite Adam and Eve not knowing they were okay... and your sole justification is that they wouldn't want to do those things anyway.
As A&E had no desire to commit these other sins there was no need for god to address them. It's nonsensical for you to say that God "obscured" something that wasn't even an issue.
Quote:Something you cannot prove, cannot know, and will not admit that you just made up because it's convenient.
Before the fall, god called the creation "very good." The Bible makes it clear that thoughts are sins as well as actions. If Adam had sinful desires, it wouldn't be "very good."
Quote:"You can do whatever you want, except the things that'll anger me. What things? Oh no, I ain't telling you! Just stay away from my tree!"
And you think this is okay? Would you accept this behavior from anyone else?
Yes, I think it's OK not to warn people against doing things that they don't desire to do. Your post got swallowed, fixed it for you john.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 8:41 am
So John, how do you intend to demonstrate that nobody, of the many immortal humans that would have come to exist in the garden had the state of reality continued along god's initial plan, would ever have desired to commit a sin?
You seem to keep avoiding this question, which is really interesting considering that the thing Adam and Eve, the first humans in that garden, are famous for, is committing a sin.
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 9:34 am
(September 23, 2013 at 8:41 am)Esquilax Wrote: So John, how do you intend to demonstrate that nobody, of the many immortal humans that would have come to exist in the garden had the state of reality continued along god's initial plan, would ever have desired to commit a sin?
You seem to keep avoiding this question, which is really interesting considering that the thing Adam and Eve, the first humans in that garden, are famous for, is committing a sin. As god in his omniscience knew that A&E would sin before having offspring, why do I need to address it at all?
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 11:31 am
*cough cough*
(September 17, 2013 at 8:41 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: (September 17, 2013 at 11:42 am)John V Wrote: You're using "faith" here in the sense of trust, while I specifically used it in the sense of belief.
In the sense of belief, the thing believed is not verified. If it were, belief in it would no longer require faith. It may or may not be verifiable. However, note that, until verified, claiming that something is verifiable is also a belief on faith.
Meh, semantics... have it your way then: it's unjustified belief that you're applying to your god. What is it exactly that leads you to blindly believe this unverifiable being over any other unverifiable being, including unverifiable lawn-growing gnomes? If you don't have any method of reasonably excluding belief in lawn-growing gnomes, then for you to say your "faith/belief" is reasonable would be begging the question, as you are *somehow* believing one thing over another for *some* reason.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Satan Disproves Christianity
September 23, 2013 at 12:27 pm
(September 23, 2013 at 11:31 am)FallentoReason Wrote: *cough cough*
(September 17, 2013 at 8:41 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Meh, semantics... have it your way then: it's unjustified belief that you're applying to your god. What is it exactly that leads you to blindly believe this unverifiable being over any other unverifiable being, including unverifiable lawn-growing gnomes? If you don't have any method of reasonably excluding belief in lawn-growing gnomes, then for you to say your "faith/belief" is reasonable would be begging the question, as you are *somehow* believing one thing over another for *some* reason. Seriously? OK. To start, I've never heard the claim that gnomes grow anyone's grass. I don't just go about considering claims that haven't been made.
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