Guns and kids should never be allowed in the same fucking house. Seriously.

(September 30, 2013 at 8:33 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote: Guns and kids should never be allowed in the same fucking house. Seriously.

Oh come on! We got a country to entertain with more tragic deaths of kids via guns to play over the news! We love to gobble that shit up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5iTpleCndo

(September 29, 2013 at 8:22 pm)Zazzy Wrote: This article (Children and Guns: The Hidden Toll) was on the front page of the New York Times today. It left me speechless.

I have barely ever touched a gun (just unloaded antiques) and I don't understand the fixation. Are there any reasonable NRA members here who can help me understand this? It appears that the gun lobby is simply fucking insane. I'd appreciate some insight to help me process this.

Well, if the weapons industry is nationalized and put in the hands of the goverment, the government can actually determine who will get guns.
Obviously there is always the possibility of your child discovering and somewhat killing or hurting himself with your weapon, but I don't think thats somewhat of a good reason to ban guns.
A good reason to ban guns would be to diminish the crime rates, though nationalizing the weapons industry would allow you to give guns to more upstanding members of society rather than those who are prone to use it for assault and robbery.

And speaking of it, I think that children from a certain age should be introduced in the use of firearms. Good for the martial spirit of a nation. But best to keep your guns in a safe place where children cannot reach them.

On another forum I used to visit, there was a woman who has guns in her house. She hated guns, then married someone who loves them and did that thing some women do when they get married, and forgot her own opinions and took on his. Now she lets her kid and his kids play with them and everything. I think it's awful parenting and called her out on it a few times. They defend their guns by saying that they need them to defend their family if someone breaks in to their home... Yet in a discussion about guns in a house with kids one of them (she and her husband were both members there) said how the guns were locked away somewhere totally separate from the bullets or whatever, which were locked away in another location and how it would take about 10 minutes to get a gun loaded and ready to fire or some shit. Now, while I'm sure this minimises the risk to the kids (although, kids would still get to those guns and the bullets if they wanted to, kids are fucking good at shit like that), if their house had been broken into, how exactly would those guns defend them? It's such bullshit. I don't believe their guns are locked away at all, and when one of their kids get hurt I'm going to have no fucking sympathy for them whatsoever.

(September 30, 2013 at 9:38 am)NoraBrimstone Wrote: On another forum I used to visit, there was a woman who has guns in her house. She hated guns, then married someone who loves them and did that thing some women do when they get married, and forgot her own opinions and took on his. Now she lets her kid and his kids play with them and everything. I think it's awful parenting and called her out on it a few times. They defend their guns by saying that they need them to defend their family if someone breaks in to their home... Yet in a discussion about guns in a house with kids one of them (she and her husband were both members there) said how the guns were locked away somewhere totally separate from the bullets or whatever, which were locked away in another location and how it would take about 10 minutes to get a gun loaded and ready to fire or some shit. Now, while I'm sure this minimises the risk to the kids (although, kids would still get to those guns and the bullets if they wanted to, kids are fucking good at shit like that), if their house had been broken into, how exactly would those guns defend them? It's such bullshit. I don't believe their guns are locked away at all, and when one of their kids get hurt I'm going to have no fucking sympathy for them whatsoever.

Why is it awful parenting to allow kids to play with an unloaded gun?
Its the same as allowing them to play wth toy guns.
And I'm sure they mean their ammo cache is far away, they probably have a few shells or clips somewhere nearby.
I personally don't think that you really care about the child's life at all, but only that he or she is subject ot "militarist patriarchal agenda".

(September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I personally don't think that you really care about the child's life at all, but only that he or she is subject ot "militarist patriarchal agenda".

Let's jump to conclusions because we don't agree with people. The world would be so much better off.

(September 30, 2013 at 9:44 am)Psykhronic Wrote:

(September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I personally don't think that you really care about the child's life at all, but only that he or she is subject ot "militarist patriarchal agenda".

Let's jump to conclusions because we don't agree with people. The world would be so much better off.

Well, perhaps you're right. But I really can't imagine any other good reason, to be honest.

(September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Why is it awful parenting to allow kids to play with an unloaded gun?

Well, it's not good to teach kids that violence is OK. Ever. But in any case, I didn't say they let the kids play with unloaded guns. I meant the kids play with guns. As in, they shoot things in their backyard. Fully loaded guns being fired by little kids is what I'm talking about here.

(September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Its the same as allowing them to play wth toy guns.

I wouldn't allow that either.

(September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: And I'm sure they mean their ammo cache is far away, they probably have a few shells or clips somewhere nearby.

If so, I'm sure the kids know exactly where they are. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid I knew exactly where the things I wasn't supposed to play with (matches, lighters, knives, scissors, etc.) were hidden, and could have easily harmed myself or a sibling if my mother had been negligent and I had been an idiot child.

(September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I personally don't think that you really care about the child's life at all, but only that he or she is subject to "militarist patriarchal agenda".

.... No. Believe it or not, I don't like the the thought of dead little kids whose deaths are the result of their stupid parents' love of extreme violence and unwillingness to protect their children from it.

Quote:Well, it's not good to teach kids that violence is OK. Ever. But in any case, I didn't say they let the kids play with unloaded guns. I meant the kids play with guns. As in, they shoot things in their backyard. Fully loaded guns being fired by little kids is what I'm talking about here.

Violence? You're not telling them to point the gun at someone walking down the street, obviously. Besides, you don't have to teach your children "violence", violence is something the world teaches your children, even if you're a complete pacifist. But I'd call it good parenting if you'd teach your children when violence is an acceptable solution to a problem, and teach him/her when it isn't. Teaching kids about that all violence is bad will make them only unable to tackle any violence they might experience later in life, and be assured, they will.

However allowing your children to play with guns...It isn't really something that should be called bad parenting. Unless you give them a loaded gun of course, without supervision.

And well, shooting things...Why should it be considered bad to teach children marksmanship? It isn't considered bad parenting when you send your children to a karate-course or archery, is it? How is the use of modern day guns worse?
IF they fire their guns with the supervision of their parents, well, I see nothing bad done here my friend.
If I have children, I myself will take them to the shooting range and allow them to practice marksmanship.

Quote:I wouldn't allow that either.

Well, because you hate guns, and I reckon for no good reason at all.

Quote:If so, I'm sure the kids know exactly where they are. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid I knew exactly where the things I wasn't supposed to play with (matches, lighters, knives, scissors, etc.) were hidden, and could have easily harmed myself or a sibling if my mother had been negligent and I had been an idiot child.

Okay. Though they don't really need to get to the cache and load up the gun, their parents load it and allow them to shoot it in their back-yard, so the kid won't feel the need to actually sneak about to load a gun and shoot, as he/she can shoot with the supervision of his parents. And I'm sure a kid that can handle the recoil of a gun knows how dangerous it is, so he/she won't actually be doing it. But as you said, there are lots of dangerous things in the house that can be used by children to hurt themselves or other people, like knives, rope, and of course very small things that they can choke themselves on.
Best not to let those in the house either.

Quote:... No. Believe it or not, I don't like the the thought of dead little kids whose deaths are the result of their stupid parents' love of extreme violence and unwillingness to protect their children from it.

And how did you come to the conclusion that people are unwilling to protect their kids from it? In my country, before the establishment of the republic, every family used to own a gun. And every male and female practiced marksmanship with them from an early age. Obviously it is a thing of the modern age to think that kids are as stupid as to put the guns in their mouth and pull the trigger, which they will do if they don't know what the gun actually is and what it does.

If you allow your child to actually get to know the gun, just like you let your child know what a knife is and what it does, I'm sure he/she won't use the gun to accidentally commit suicide. But well, if you hide your gun somewhat badly and your child who has never seen it stumbles across I'm sure you're bound for trouble. If you own a gun and have a child, allow him/her to get to know the gun. Heck, if he/she can handle the recoil, take him/her to the range and have him/her fire a couple of shots so he/she knows better than to point it towards him/herself.
Geez, I hate the fact that english has no gender neutral pronouns.