I wouldn't care if English was your fourth or fifth language. You are attributing invisible, magical qualities to silly four-letter words, for one thing, and, for another, you cannot possibly expect people to walk on eggshells around you when it comes to language. If it's still a problem for you, there's always the option of leaving.

(October 9, 2013 at 3:10 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I wouldn't care if English was your fourth or fifth language. You are attributing invisible, magical qualities to silly four-letter words, for one thing, and, for another, you cannot possibly expect people to walk on eggshells around you when it comes to language. If it's still a problem for you, there's always the option of leaving.

I know very well what you mean since my philosophy is somewhat similar, but I still like to have a polite conversation. It is a problem for me, that's why I will leave this forum.

(October 9, 2013 at 3:14 am)Kemotx Wrote: I know very well what you mean since my philosophy is somewhat similar, but I still like to have a polite conversation. It is a problem for me, that's why I will leave this forum.

Which is a pity: due to your thin skin, you'll be missing out on some otherwise very nice people. Remember: coarse isn't the same thing as hateful.

Seriously. I'm the softest, most amiable motherfucker you'll ever meet.

(October 9, 2013 at 4:23 am)Ryantology Wrote: Seriously. I'm the softest, most amiable motherfucker you'll ever meet.

OTOH, I'm the most amicably nice guy in the world.
I should get married to some 100 women and restore their faith in MANkind

(October 8, 2013 at 5:41 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: I know I am sick of screaming into deaf ears, but when someone won't listen, what do you do? You talk louder.

We're listening we just think you're mistaken. We don't know you're mistaken but what you're not doing is selling the idea of why this materialism of yours is superior to a faith in God you're just stating your own opinions as fact. You do realize that neither of us actually know for certain so it's a belief either way? Would you like me to post the Space Gnome video again?

(October 9, 2013 at 4:52 am)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 8, 2013 at 5:41 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: I know I am sick of screaming into deaf ears, but when someone won't listen, what do you do? You talk louder.

We're listening we just think you're mistaken. We don't know you're mistaken but what you're not doing is selling the idea of why this materialism of yours is superior to a faith in God you're just stating your own opinions as fact. You do realize that neither of us actually know for certain so it's a belief either way? Would you like me to post the Space Gnome video again?

You've made it a personal mission to fail as hard as possible on this forum haven't you?

I mean it's nice to set goals, but come on...

(October 9, 2013 at 4:52 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: We're listening we just think you're mistaken.

Lemme clarify this for you: if you're listening, that's fine. If you think we're mistaken, that's fine too. Actually, it's preferred, because I'd personally hate to see this place become a secular echo chamber. But listening and disagreeing are only one half of the entire purpose of all this.

The other half, is detailing why you disagree, and what there is to make your position the correct one to take. It's part of an ongoing dialogue, see? We have our view, you have yours, and we spend time trading arguments as to why we think we're correct, and critiques of the arguments of the opposing side.

The problem we encounter is that you guys don't seem to really listen to what we say about what you say, nor even about our original position, in some cases. When we offer critiques of a certain argument for god, that argument never seems to change or go away- in fact it often gets repackaged as something else a few years later- or you simply retract back to a faith position without so much as an acknowledgement of our critique.

It get's even worse when you- intentionally or otherwise- misrepresent our position; right here, you pin materialism on us as though it's an atheist position. It's not. Methodological naturalism is a scientific concept that we sometimes ascribe to, and we're usually the ones pointing out that belief without evidence is unjustified, but that's not materialism and that's not a pre-requisite to being an atheist.

Quote:We don't know you're mistaken but what you're not doing is selling the idea of why this materialism of yours is superior to a faith in God you're just stating your own opinions as fact.

What's wrong with stating our opinions? And we often do post facts as well, with references to them, so hey.

Quote: You do realize that neither of us actually know for certain so it's a belief either way?

I challenge you to find a single atheist here who says that he knows for certain that god doesn't exist. In fact, show of hands, guys: who here doesn't know whether there's a god or not?

*raises hand.*

Quote: Would you like me to post the Space Gnome video again?

I wouldn't, but if you'd like to be dishonest and argue against something that isn't atheism, I invite you too. The scorn you receive will be your own doing.

(October 9, 2013 at 5:07 am)Heir Apparent Wrote: You've made it a personal mission to fail as hard as possible on this forum haven't you?

I mean it's nice to set goals, but come on...

You don't find this materialist nihilism of yours a little bit depressing/bewildering? I understand the skeptical angle to a certain degree but once you start going on about how God doesn't exist or there is no reason to believe God exists if you don't have hard scientific evidence of some kind I find that baffling, particularly as God isn't meant to be a scientific theory. If you really have a genuine lack of an opinion either way as atheists like to claim then you wouldn't be able to spout off the way you're doing so it has to be a belief or ideology of some kind.

---

(October 9, 2013 at 5:10 am)Esquilax Wrote: The other half, is detailing why you disagree, and what there is to make your position the correct one to take.

The thing is theists do have various reasons for belief or a faith in God even if they aren't reasons you may like. Atheists keep insisting that God is some kind of myth. You don't explain why you think that you seem to think it ought to be taken for granted that it is and it's up to theists to prove it via the scientific method. That's not really how it works what you have to do is explain why the alternative you have in mind is the truth of the matter as you believe and if you can't demonstrate it explain why it would be better to believe the alternative. You are essentially still playing on the same playing field so it would be better if you can play by the same rules, then you may get somewhere.

Quote:The problem we encounter is that you guys don't seem to really listen to what we say about what you say, nor even about our original position, in some cases. When we offer critiques of a certain argument for god, that argument never seems to change or go away- in fact it often gets repackaged as something else a few years later- or you simply retract back to a faith position without so much as an acknowledgement of our critique.

Most of your arguments against God are either against the existence of gods in general such as Zeus. We don't believe in those gods either for most part so we would agree there or they're arguments involving science which has nothing to do with the question. All educated people who aren't conspiracy theorists will accept the all same scientific evidence we currently have. If you want to bring up issues like the problem of evil that can be dealt with.

Quote:It get's even worse when you- intentionally or otherwise- misrepresent our position; right here, you pin materialism on us as though it's an atheist position.

If you remove the non-physical element of reality what the heck do you think you're going to be left with? Yes it would be the same thing.

Quote:It's not. Methodological naturalism is a scientific concept that we sometimes ascribe to, and we're usually the ones pointing out that belief without evidence is unjustified, but that's not materialism and that's not a pre-requisite to being an atheist.

We all accept, or should accept, methodological naturalism. That's science, it's a different subject.

Quote:What's wrong with stating our opinions? And we often do post facts as well, with references to them, so hey.

You keep claiming not to have a belief/opinion on the existence of God? A lack of a belief as you like to call it. Again if you're on the same playing field you have to play by the rules, you have a belief in something you feel to be true and can't be demonstrated scientifically. So what you have to do explain why you think this true and why it's better to believe in it. If it isn't better then just have faith in a loving eternal God instead it won't kill you. Try it for a week you might like it, if you already tried have another go with a better understanding of what a faith is. It's not something particularly different to what you're doing now it's just the other way.

Quote:
I challenge you to find a single atheist here who says that he knows for certain that god doesn't exist. In fact, show of hands, guys: who here doesn't know whether there's a god or not?

They say things that they can't know for certain that fairies or invisible pink unicorns don't exist either. The implication being they're sure as fuck that fairies and invisible pink unicorns don't exist, but they can't know for a fact they don't.

Quote:I wouldn't, but if you'd like to be dishonest and argue against something that isn't atheism, I invite you too. The scorn you receive will be your own doing.

I can post something a lot worse.

(October 9, 2013 at 3:14 am)Kemotx Wrote: It is a problem for me, that's why I will leave this forum.

Is that a promise?