Agnosticism and deism are pointless and bring my piss to the boil. Atheism/materialism I have some respect for as you made up your mind and you're not mincing and messing around. But you still try to argue for agnosticism when pressed. It's worth pointing out that agnosticism is a statement of what you know not what you believe so we're all agnostics here.

We havent made up our mind, you lack to prove the flavour of 'god' you prefer.

(October 9, 2013 at 9:45 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Agnosticism and deism are pointless and bring my piss to the boil. Atheism/materialism I have some respect for as you made up your mind and you're not mincing and messing around. But you still try to argue for agnosticism when pressed. It's worth pointing out that agnosticism is a statement of what you know not what you believe so we're all agnostics here.

So aside from not listening again, you're content to be a loudmouthed, ignorant braggart, for whom conviction can override correctness? Well, whatever...

Aside from your... startling lack of honesty, you've got it backwards: agnosticism is about what you claim to know, and atheism is about what you claim to believe. That's why the etymology of the former term is gnosis, meaning knowledge, and the a- prefix, denoting a lack of.

Na, I'm with Kemotx, the Atheists around here are the problem, they turned me into newt,,, I got better. I told the admins here about this and they hit me with all this subjectivity stuff and "how do you justify your claim that your current state is better than newtness?" You atheists just pedal doubt. It was strangely cool being a newt though.

Cool story bro.

(October 9, 2013 at 9:27 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Look the question of the number of sweets in the jar is something that can be physically determined it therefore something science can explain, by taking out the sweets and counting them. Seeing as you can't do that with God it's a strawman fallacy, it isn't comparable as a concept. You can't prove God with science forget about that. No-one is claiming God as a scientific hypothesis it is a faith.

OK, so your belief is based on faith.

Why are you here? To proselytize? To convert?

I don't have your faith, and absent evidence, you can't convince me to have it.

(October 9, 2013 at 9:58 am)Esquilax Wrote: Aside from your... startling lack of honesty, you've got it backwards: agnosticism is about what you claim to know, and atheism is about what you claim to believe. That's why the etymology of the former term is gnosis, meaning knowledge, and the a- prefix, denoting a lack of.

That's exactly what I said, we're all agnostics as we don't know for certain. I am 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain that atheism/naturalism/materialism is wrong so I'm close enough to gnosticism as to Gods existence at least. What kind of God? I'd say loving God who does care about us and we're a part of Gods eternal community. You believe in some kind natural cycle of eternal decay and death and survival of the most fit, red in tooth and claw or whatever. I don't think humanity is quite what you would suggest it is, though certainly if you take certain events and societies in history we can be.

(October 9, 2013 at 10:15 am)Chas Wrote: OK, so your belief is based on faith.

Logic, reason, history, personal experience, evidence and a little bit of faith thrown in to hold it together. You do need a little of that but not too much as the existence of God ought to be reasonably self evident.

Quote:Why are you here? To proselytize? To convert?

I'm subjecting my faith to some stone cold atheism to see if it withstands the onslaught of reason. It seems to thrive better on here than it would on a Christian forum.

Quote:I don't have your faith, and absent evidence, you can't convince me to have it.

You're close minded then.

(October 9, 2013 at 10:49 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: That's exactly what I said, we're all agnostics as we don't know for certain.

Something I've said repeatedly, across numerous posts, recently in response to your accusations that atheists don't really know there's no god...

Quote: You believe in some kind natural cycle of eternal decay and death and survival of the most fit, red in tooth and claw or whatever. I don't think humanity is quite what you would suggest it is, though certainly if you take certain events and societies in history we can be.

Why do you still feel qualified to tell me what I believe? To tell anyone else what they believe?

Quote:Logic, reason, history, personal experience, evidence and a little bit of faith thrown in to hold it together. You do need a little of that but not too much as the existence of God ought to be reasonably self evident.

Why do you think there's so many different denominations of your church, then? So many different religions? Atheists? It's apparently not that self evident.

(October 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Why do you still feel qualified to tell me what I believe? To tell anyone else what they believe?

Sword is really prone to this. He likes to tell you what you are and are not, too. And he REALLY hates comparing Jehovah to Zeus, but he can't say why that bothers him so much.

Still telling everyone what they think, eh, Sword?

(October 9, 2013 at 10:49 am)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 9:58 am)Esquilax Wrote: Aside from your... startling lack of honesty, you've got it backwards: agnosticism is about what you claim to know, and atheism is about what you claim to believe. That's why the etymology of the former term is gnosis, meaning knowledge, and the a- prefix, denoting a lack of.

That's exactly what I said, we're all agnostics as we don't know for certain. I am 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain that atheism/naturalism/materialism is wrong so I'm close enough to gnosticism as to Gods existence at least. What kind of God? I'd say loving God who does care about us and we're a part of Gods eternal community. You believe in some kind natural cycle of eternal decay and death and survival of the most fit, red in tooth and claw or whatever. I don't think humanity is quite what you would suggest it is, though certainly if you take certain events and societies in history we can be.

What makes you so sure the atheism and naturalism/materialism are wrong? And wrong how?

Quote:

(October 9, 2013 at 10:15 am)Chas Wrote: OK, so your belief is based on faith.

Logic, reason, history, personal experience, evidence and a little bit of faith thrown in to hold it together. You do need a little of that but not too much as the existence of God ought to be reasonably self evident.

Please present your evidence.
The existence of gods is not self-evident.

Quote:

Quote:Why are you here? To proselytize? To convert?

I'm subjecting my faith to some stone cold atheism to see if it withstands the onslaught of reason. It seems to thrive better on here than it would on a Christian forum.

How does it thrive? By your ignoring requests for evidence?

Quote:

Quote:I don't have your faith, and absent evidence, you can't convince me to have it.

You're close minded then.

Someone awaiting evidence for a claim is skeptical, not closed-minded.