In the current edition of the weekly journal "Der Spiegel" there is an essey giving a short analasys of the situation surrounding the current goverment shutdown. Might be interesting for some of the American members to read since it gives an outside perspective, but unfortunatly the essey has not yet been translated into english. I would like to post the basic claims given in that essey and ask the American members here if there is any truth to it or if the essey got it`s facts wrong.

The author claims that the American economy is on the road to recovery. The number of unemployed Americans is shrinking, consumtion is starting to rise and everything in the country points to recovery. Adding to that "the war on terror" will be coming to an end by 2014.
Seeing this, the radical tea party wing of the republican party, which has the prime political goal to make Obama a failed president no matter how bad the consequences for the rest of the country would be, have mainly participated in and forced the goverment shutdown because of their goal to make this president a failure, by slicing down the slight economic recovery and attempting to sabotage the health care reform. With the war in Afghanistan ending and the economy in recovery the radical elements of the republican party are losing their talking points and therefor have to make sure that a failed democratic president will become their next talking point.


I found these claims to be very interesting, but would like to have them varyfied by some American members of this forum. To me, the very idea of a political party is willing to sabotage the country simply to make their opponent look weak is something alien which would be impossible here.

They're just good christians doing the lord's work. And by work I mean crusade. Anything that even smacks of progress is to be feared. A black president is an inviting target for this group. Old money bluebloods with dreams of becoming robber barons and no money rednecks with dreams of a theocracy. Ugh...what a combo.

I don't think their primary goal is to make Obama a "failed president." Any President is going to have things that go well and things that go badly, and the amount of blame and credit will depend on who is judging. For his political opponents, the slow economic recovery and the passing of health insurance reform will be sufficient to mark him a failure in their minds. They do honestly want to repeal the health insurance law. It's likely that they have a sort of doomsday belief that it will cause so much economic harm that any attempt to overturn it is worthwhile, but I doubt that they're willing to sink the whole ship in order to get rid of a few rats. Stuff like the "government shutdown" and the "crisis" over the debt ceiling is really more posturing than anything else, though the former does have real consequences that congressfolk aren't terribly concerned about IMO.

Hobbling and discrediting Obama has been the Republicans' sole strategy since 2009. As disgusting as I find it, I do understand. The GOP's brand is so befouled at this point that obstructionism is really all they have left, and of course the loudest, dimmest members of the party (the Tea Party politicians and their useful-idiot constituencies) hold the few sensible Republicans that remain hostage to the whims of their puppet masters, e.g., the Koch brothers.

It maddens me no end that the right wing propaganda machine has been so successful here. Most of the people I work with have swallowed the Kool Aid and are utterly convinced that Obama is solely responsible for this debacle. Listening to them discuss current events is like being locked in a Fox News echo chamber.

Here's something that the GOP party bosses and the plutocrats behind the scenes need to consider. Many of the Tea Party faithful are, or are descended from, the old conservative, Southern Blue Dog wing of the Democratic party whom Reagan successfully brought over to the Republicans. These deluded souls have spent the past thirty-odd years carrying the water for a group of people who don't really give a damn about their concerns; they are just seen as useful, reactionary foot soldiers. If they ever collectively came to the realization of how badly they've been manipulated, used, screwed, and discarded there is a very good chance that they would go off the reservation and effectively end what's left of the GOP's electoral chances.

The Republicans should tread very carefully. They have far more to fear from their own right wing than they do from the Democrats. The Democrats can merely beat them in elections. The Tea Party can destroy them.

(October 11, 2013 at 6:37 am)Crossless1 Wrote: If they ever collectively came to the realization of how badly they've been manipulated, used, screwed, and discarded there is a very good chance that they would go off the reservation and effectively end what's left of the GOP's electoral chances.

There's little chance of the first part of this statement ever happening.

You are aware that people on the other side of the political fence similarly believe you all are deluded and slaves to government, among a plethora of other faults, right?

Perhaps it has always been this way, humanity doesn't seem to change in its basic behaviors. However, I can't help that think that politics is just another human religion because 9/10th of what people say appears to based purely upon opinion of how the world and its governments should operate. The discussions typically involve rhetoric and insults to the other side, and very little substance. I understand, I can be just as bad.

Anyways, I have no idea what the TP is about. I think they were all for fiscal conservatism and I can appreciate that, but it seems the social cons are gravitating towards them and I can't get on board with that obviously. I do believe Ted Cruz is history though.

The tea party's primary goal is to make Obama a failure. They have done everything they could to slow the economy and prevent us from creating jobs. They have done everything they could to put up opposition to Obama.

Much of what Obama has done is moderate and where the republicans were 10 years ago. The PPACA, carbon tax plan, etc. Were all republican ideas. Since Obama was first elected, Cantor, McConnell and other republican leaders met and they decided then that their only job was to make Obama a failure. It wasn't about how to make the country a success, it was about making Obama a failure. Party has been far more important to them then their country.

You are on the outside looking in. Have you ever been to a TP rally? In a town meeting with tea partiers? Or are you just giving us your opinion based on perception that might be biased by reading the opinions of like minded individuals?

(October 11, 2013 at 4:37 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: I found these claims to be very interesting, but would like to have them varyfied by some American members of this forum. To me, the very idea of a political party is willing to sabotage the country simply to make their opponent look weak is something alien which would be impossible here.

Fascism and other radical right wing ideologies are sometimes self-destructive toward their own country when they seek to achieve their political ends. In fact, their fanatical ideologies are sometimes self-destructive just in their very nature. We've seen this before in countries.

I remember when I was in school studying the rise of Nazism how there was nothing uniquely German about it. It's a disease that can infect any country under the right conditions and eternal vigilance is needed to keep it at bay. In America, we've had such hubris that "it could never happen here". Our democracy is simply too perfect. If you had told me during the 90s what was to come, what the right wing would be getting away with, I'd have said you were crazy. A war of aggression under false pretenses with no questions asked and no accountability? And we'd actually re-elect that president? Impossible. I even remember saying in 2003 that if all Bush's claims about Iraq turn out not to be true, he'll be impeached so quickly his butt would leave skid marks through the rose garden.

American style fascism seems a lot more unhinged than the versions I've seen in other countries. The Italian fascists could make the trains run on time but the American version can't seem to govern at all. Our war of aggression in Iraq was so poorly planned that the entire occupation seemed improvised, as if our leaders really expected we'd be greeted with sweets and flowers and all would simply be well because we were there. At home, the administration was so disastrous it all came crashing down in 2008. When out of power, all they can seem to do is sabotage.

The good news is that their power and voting bloc are on the wane. The only way the GOP stayed in power in the House is by severe "gerrymandering" (if you're not familiar, its drawing voting districts in such obtuse ways as to isolate the opposition voters into one block and thereby give control to your side of as many districts as possible). The bad news is that radical right ideologies in any country are not known to go quietly into the night. As their power wanes, fascists become more desperate and more destructive. Hence what we're seeing now.

It is probably a bit more general than just an attempt to make Obama look bad. The Tea Party needs a win. Very badly. The seats they have are safe because of the districts they are in, but they want a larger portion of the electorate and they need a win in order to convince the less right-wing members of their party to vote for them.

It is a hail mary pass that they tossed up there. After they tossed it up there, they realized that they hadn't quite thought the plan all the way through. Since they didn't have anyone at the other end to catch it....and the game has been over for more than a year....