I was born an atheist, and to this date nobody has convinced me they're right to make be believe them. They've only proven themselves wrong.

Maybe my standards are too high?

I'm liking this thread.

In my own discovery process with religion, I came to the conclusion that they are all man made. Because human beings have this tendency to look outside of themselves for happiness, it's no wonder gods were created, and have been created over and over again, in people's minds...to fulfill some void that they seem to be missing. Now having said all of that, I'm agnostic, because I can't say without some trepidation, that a god exists or not. It is quite logical to me, to be agnostic. Not sure what atheist agnostic is, really, but have a few friends 'in real life,' who identify themselves as such.

But, I respect all people who are spiritual. It is their choice, just like it is some of our choices here to step away from it all.

No one can choose your path. You have to find it on your own. If you are truly searching for answers, you will find them. The key is to always be inquisitive, always seeking to know more than you know right now. That is the essence of living. Whether you believe in God or not, always be seeking to know yourself, to know your life, and to finding your own purpose.

I was born an atheist, too, however I had my mind raped with Catholic brainwashing. Luckily I was able to overcome it.

There are many ''recovering Catholics'' amongst us.

(October 11, 2013 at 2:13 pm)Dunno Wrote: I've noticed a lot of people on here discussing theology, especially Christian, and I just wanted to make a post here about why being an atheist is the right decision.

Not everyone is Christian. There are a myriad of different religions out there. I'd feel more comfortable if someone was trying to make me see why I shouldn't turn away from Buddha on here, I always liked Buddha. Don't worship the guy, but he was alright.

Anyways, if you have decided to become an atheist and are slightly conflicted about turning away from religion, there are a few questions you probably have.

1. If religion was invented by humans, then why?

2. What does religion do to people in an observable way?

3. If there's more than one religion, are all of them wrong, are all of them correct, or are all of them describing something we haven't yet correctly described?

4. But I'm terrified of death, what will happen when I die?

Now I will begin to answer these questions one by one.

1. This question is hard to answer. If I say that it was invented to enslave people to stories perhaps I am being too hard on people, if I say it was invented to explain the world I am not being realistic because it doesn't explain the world, the truth is I don't know why religion was invented, it would take an expert in human social behavior to analyze this, especially because of the madness religion sometimes causes.

2. I have observed that religion causes people to believe the impossible and behave in crazy sometimes damaging ways. It also brings people together at fun gatherings and encourages good behavior at the threat of supernatural punishment which never comes, although people punish others for bad behavior. They have power over marriage rituals which is a uniform custom in every culture, thus we can assume that a man and woman being together for life is an animal urge. They have power over funerals. This makes them an important part of human social structure, a part of what leads us, even if they are crazy.

3. All of them have value because all of them are interesting, however they are all unbelievable and fanciful. We must always be open to other people's ways of life.

4. You don't know what will happen when you die because you have never experienced death.

So why be an atheist?

Remember, being an atheist isn't all disbelieving, it is being open to an infinite number of possibilities. If you constrain yourself to one way of thinking and never change, then it is you who are left behind. It is observing. There are higher powers in the world, ones that are not fanciful, and only through observation and analysis can you truly know what these are, and that some are very dangerous, some are good, and some, like the power of nature, have no concept of good or evil, except that humans, as part of nature, have that concept.

There is a parallelogram in a game I played constantly as a child, a puzzle game from ancient china. The shape was specific, but it was called the parallelogram because here in the west it has no name. Does it have a name in china, the right triangles connected on the short side? The square is cut up into triangles, a square, and the parallelogram, and from there, you can make a huge variety of shapes. People are like this square. All varieties are just the square in disguise. I was wondering about it, sorry I put it in here. Anyway, end of this post.

I find your answers to be terribly inadequate. Here are a list of your mistakes.

1. You fail to make an important distinction between the existence of God and the existence of organized religion. Given all your critiques of religion, a deity of some sort could still exist.
2. Atheism is not a position on organized religion, it is a position on the existence of God. Thus attacking religion does not justify atheism.
3. The answers to your specific questions are inadequate.
-You have failed to determine that religion was "invented by humans".
-Assuming it was "invented by humans", your answer to (1) amounts to "I don't know."
-You have improperly used anecdotal, untestable and unverifiable observations of your own to answer (2).
-You have provided no evidence to support your answer to (3).

The only satisfactory answer you have provided is your answer to (4).

As such, reasonable people ought to reject your first three answers and accept answer (4).

(October 11, 2013 at 5:59 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: 1. You fail to make an important distinction between the existence of God and the existence of organized religion. Given all your critiques of religion, a deity of some sort could still exist.

Something we can actually agree on.

So, Vinny....

I believe you've been asked the following questions several times and I've yet to see you answer.

What do you believe?

If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;

1. define the god you believe exists
2. explain why you believe it
3. provide demonstrable evidence that supports your belief
4. explain why we should believe it

(October 11, 2013 at 6:38 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(October 11, 2013 at 5:59 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: 1. You fail to make an important distinction between the existence of God and the existence of organized religion. Given all your critiques of religion, a deity of some sort could still exist.

Something we can actually agree on.

So, Vinny....

I believe you've been asked the following questions several times and I've yet to see you answer.

What do you believe?

If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;

1. define the god you believe exists
2. explain why you believe it
3. provide demonstrable evidence that supports your belief
4. explain why we should believe it

How the fuck does 1, 2, 3, and 4 follow from "If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;"?

(October 11, 2013 at 6:45 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote:

(October 11, 2013 at 6:38 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Something we can actually agree on.

So, Vinny....

I believe you've been asked the following questions several times and I've yet to see you answer.

What do you believe?

If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;

1. define the god you believe exists
2. explain why you believe it
3. provide demonstrable evidence that supports your belief
4. explain why we should believe it

How the fuck does 1, 2, 3, and 4 follow from "If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;"?

I was defining belief as:

"Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

If you believe a god exists:

Define it.
Explain why you believe it.
Provide evidence for it.

(October 11, 2013 at 7:03 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(October 11, 2013 at 6:45 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: How the fuck does 1, 2, 3, and 4 follow from "If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;"?

I was defining belief as:

"Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

If you believe a god exists:

Define it.
Explain why you believe it.
Provide evidence for it.

At best, people can only have a concept or idea of who they believe God to be. And that concept, when nurtured enough, will easily feel like reality to them. I respect people's beliefs, as long as they don't trample on others, and try to infiltrate our government.

I don't want to become one of those atheists/agnostics who are militant, because that is the very thing I didn't like about religion. It's a fine line, everyone. Have to be careful not to push people away with our own beliefs, just like we don't want religious people to do that to us.

(October 11, 2013 at 7:03 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(October 11, 2013 at 6:45 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: How the fuck does 1, 2, 3, and 4 follow from "If you hold that the premise that a god exists to be true;"?

I was defining belief as:

"Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

If you believe a god exists:

Define it.
Explain why you believe it.
Provide evidence for it.

It still doesn't follow from your definition of belief that I ought to do either of the things you have said.

Are you requesting that I do them because you want to know? Then phrase it as a request.