(October 16, 2013 at 9:23 pm)Zazzy Wrote: People get away with it all the time.

Not if there is a just God. Which is the whole point of the thread in case you missed it.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: ...for an Atheist that is?

I see the mods have been busy!! Well.... I've been busy myself! Converting Atheists, and godless peeps in general is hard work! Plus... I figured you'd all want to wish me a Happy Anniversary!! Especially those who said I'd be run outta Dodge within a month! Really though... no cudos necessary! I know you all love me!

Back to the subject at hand! Given the natural cynicism and nastiness of Atheists [here] in general... is there any reason to live a "Moral" life?

The exact same reason you have ... to avoid punishment and be loved by those who love us.

Quote:"Moral", in terms of [Good, Honest] deemed by traditions through time. Maybe to include a few slightly general commandments: Lies, stealing, adultery, etc.

I mean... if there is no one or nothing to [say you are wrong, but you] about; a little swing w/ your buddies wife, or that $10 the acne faced kid gave you extra w/ your change at the Walmart; or telling your wife you were out w/ your buddy instead of his wife... How do you keep it in check? Or do you?

Since we can all name multiple preachers who have cheated on their wives and stolen money you have no right to ask this question and you sure as hell have no leg to stand on. If anything, it is the christians that have proven their morality is subject to their own whims and that their god has no more affect on their decisions to do right any more than any non-believer.

Quote:Yeah, yeah....I know you would say that Christians are doing the same thing....And they are! But, they do have a conviction in the Lord Jesus. and they know that they will answer to their words and deeds.

That doesn't justify your stupid question in the least. In fact its a filthy copout that allows christians to do the most horrific of immoral actions only to say, "hey, god forgave me for that, so don't judge me."

Quote:What do you have to answer to? Is there a point to living any kind of "honest" life?

Already answered that.

Quote:As an observation as a Christian... Your words are pretty mean spirited to any religious. And I've witnessed a lot of hate here. Maybe you feel you have that right? But also people are individuals, and deserve at least to be heard for their ideas, and concepts relating to just about anything.... religious or otherwise.

Your god is the king of hate and christians are the ambassadors of racism, bigotry and murder. You have no room to point fingers.

Quote:Anyway... what do you as an atheists feel is your moral compass. And what is the gauge set at? Honesty in general... where is the line drawn, and how?

Again, you have no right to ask this question. Christians are some of the most immoral people on the planet.

Quote:I hope you take this thread seriously! Thanks for your answers. As a Christian I have a guide/threat (if you will) in my life. I'm just curious how a person acts w/o what many here would call an "obstacle"?

Again! Good to be back celebrating ONE YEAR w/ all my A-team buddies!

No one cares.

(October 16, 2013 at 9:12 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(October 16, 2013 at 9:08 pm)Ivy Wrote: I don't want you to fuck my partner, so I won't fuck yours. I don't want you to steal my goods, so I won't steal yours.

But if you wanted to fuck and steal and you knew you could get away with it what's stopping you?

I don't want to.

But if I did... oh wait, but I don't.

I'm not saying I have never done anything that goes against my moral system, but I have felt awful, therefore I keep away from it, face the consequences, or do what I can to fix the broken pieces.

It's called integrity. Yeah, even atheists can have it.

(October 16, 2013 at 9:24 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(October 16, 2013 at 9:23 pm)Zazzy Wrote: People get away with it all the time.

Not if there is a just God. Which is the whole point of the thread in case you missed it.

Well, I don't believe in any god, just or not, Chad. The question was whether or not there was a point to morality for atheists. There is. But not everybody abides by the moral code of their tribe, as is evident by the newspapers every day. If Jesus fries them after death, that doesn't have much bearing on the now, or on whether or not atheists have moral codes. I don't notice much difference in any group of people when it comes to bad behavior.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Back to the subject at hand! Given the natural cynicism and nastiness of Atheists [here] in general... is there any reason to live a "Moral" life?

"Moral", in terms of [Good, Honest] deemed by traditions through time. Maybe to include a few slightly general commandments: Lies, stealing, adultery, etc.

I mean... if there is no one or nothing to [say you are wrong, but you] about; a little swing w/ your buddies wife, or that $10 the acne faced kid gave you extra w/ your change at the Walmart; or telling your wife you were out w/ your buddy instead of his wife... How do you keep it in check? Or do you?

There are consequences to actions. Nobody needs a Big Brother God to tell anybody how to live. The problem seems to be that Christians have inferior consciences and require an external source to compensate. Certainly, Christians are not, as a whole, better-behaved than atheists by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:Yeah, yeah....I know you would say that Christians are doing the same thing....And they are! But, they do have a conviction in the Lord Jesus. and they know that they will answer to their words and deeds.

Which is great, except you all seem to answer to a version of Lord Jesus who is totally okay with whatever you feel like doing. Jesus isn't your conscience, he's your enabler.

Quote:What do you have to answer to? Is there a point to living any kind of "honest" life?

I have to answer to myself and the people affected by what I do. As I value being a member of social groups, it is in my interest not to antagonize them. Further, doing wrong makes me feel guilt, which also is not something I enjoy.

Quote:As an observation as a Christian... Your words are pretty mean spirited to any religious. And I've witnessed a lot of hate here. Maybe you feel you have that right? But also people are individuals, and deserve at least to be heard for their ideas, and concepts relating to just about anything.... religious or otherwise.

We'd be so much nicer to you if you didn't say such stupid things. That you're among the most hateful Christians who visit this board doesn't help in your case.

Quote:Anyway... what do you as an atheists feel is your moral compass. And what is the gauge set at? Honesty in general... where is the line drawn, and how?

Same place it is for you: whatever you discover it to be through trial, error, observation, empathy and engaging in relationships. You've invented a god so that your morals sound more important than those upon whom you wish to force yours, but that's all you're doing.

(October 16, 2013 at 9:24 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: "fuck and bitch"

In separate posts in this thread. I do believe he's coming around. Now if only he could stop raping sheep...

(October 16, 2013 at 8:49 pm)Drich Wrote: Why should you lead a moral life? Because you fear jail? Being Raped in prison? Those are my reasons.

The only reason? I agree with that, but see that is NOT MY ONLY REASON. I don't physically harm other people because I have felt what physical harm does so I also have EMPATHY.

Maybe it isn't that you lack enough religion, maybe you lack empathy. Which would not surprise me since the head character of that book gets you to grovel over him for his own self interest.

Ronedee Wrote:Anyway... what do you as an atheists feel is your moral compass. And what is the gauge set at? Honesty in general... where is the line drawn, and how?

Back when I was a Christian, obviously my moral compass was in line with my particular denomination. The day that I woke up and realised I no longer believed was a very strange day indeed. My first few thoughts were to do with morality: what are my boundaries? Who's stopping me from doing whatever I want? What's right and wrong and by who's measure? That day my mind was literally white noise. But two years on, I've realised that my morals have always been that... *my* morals. After mentally stabilising myself the next few days, I went back to being who I was, morally speaking. I've come to realise that what attracted me to Christianity was that *my* morals resonated with the religion. It wasn't ever a case of me being transformed by Christianity into a morally sound individual. But rather, I've always believed that stealing, lying, cheating etc. etc. is wrong, even to this day. I've simply never had it within me to do those things, even now. I just can't bring myself to do it, not if there was an omnimax tyrant, not if we're the gods of our own world.

Where did my morals first come from? My gut feeling would have to be my parents. Both my parents are decent people and I guess I learnt from them. I also find that being nice to others brings a certain type of pleasure. I guess such a feeling is indicative of where natural selection has brought us to thus far. We have become a species reliant on community.

---

I've also just realised the biggest irony about this thread: it's in the Christianity subforum, and the title is "Is There A Point To Living A Moral Life?"

Good question to ask yourself Ronedee! What's the point to living morally/righteously? The requirement for heaven/hell isn't at all determined by how many times you gave money to the poor. It's determined by an *amoral* action; belief in Jesus the anointed. An 80 year old rapist and murderer will end up in heaven if he just sincerely believes in Jesus, whereas an 80 year old devoted Christian will end up in hell if they deconvert.

Is there a point to living a moral life as prescribed by the Bible?

Alright I'm going to address the condescension in your OP for a moment...

Your whole persecuted "Atheists are assholes and nasty godless immoral people" bullshit is annoying. I don't pretend to know who you are or where you're from but Christianity in a good portion of America and the UK is one of the most prevalent religions. You have temples to your imaginary god on almost every street corner so this whole persecuted undertone is completely ridiculous.

Anyway as to the question of a moral life, yeah there is a point even without any belief in your god. I would argue that morality from atheist/agnostic perspective is far better than any theist's 'morality' because we don't believe in any rewarding hereafter or a hell to be feared.

Ethics plays a major part in my day to day life, and the atheists/agnostics that I know are the same way. Life should be lived to the fullest without fear of some, to quote Bruce Almighty (a theistic but admittedly hilarious movie) "All Mighty Smiter's" wrath, that doesn't mean we shouldn't watch out for our fellow man and try to be honest and just in our dealings with others.

Sure there are a few bad eggs in the bunch but I don't see any paragons of righteousness in your religion my dear.

(October 16, 2013 at 9:32 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 16, 2013 at 9:24 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: "fuck and bitch"

In separate posts in this thread. I do believe he's coming around. Now if only he could stop raping sheep...

Hey if you're going to quote me, get it right. BTW the sheep had it coming.