(October 28, 2013 at 6:45 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: If the word "sin" throws you, we can call it whatever you like. Immoral behavior? Either way, I did not create it.

I know you didn't create 'sin', your 'savior' did.

Colossians 1:16 (NIV)

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

That's right, your buddy Jesus made sin for him, so that he could use it against us.


I just praise The Flying Spaghetti Monster that the entire story is a steaming dung heap.

Is there a reason I should apologize? Is that your real question?

Are you about to equivocate my awareness that I may have stumbled within my social group, and need to assert corrections, with the assumption of a necessary cause outside myself and my group, i.e. god? If so, then you may move on. Your entire premise is based upon an assumed presumption with absolutely no quantifiable nor empirical evidence to support it. The bible, your ever-changing traditions, your gooey feelings, and your fantasies are all your ilk have - not a god.
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FFF, you are jumping around and putting words into my mouth.

You like to use terms for logical fallacies and throw them at any argument that is not on your side. I do not doubt that you are intelligent.

My next question is - if you stumbled and asserted your correction, and this behavior was taught to you, were you truly forgiven or did that person or people have a no choice but to forgive you (rendering their forgiveness useless and insincere)?

(October 28, 2013 at 7:05 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: My next question is - if you stumbled and asserted your correction, and this behavior was taught to you, were you truly forgiven or did that person or people have a no choice but to forgive you (rendering their forgiveness useless and insincere)?

Forgiveness, like apologizing is a choice. Each bear their respective consequences. They are not compulsory, but may be beneficial on an individual or group basis. I leave little room for altruism being anything more than a cause-and-effect theory in action.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:58 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 6:45 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: If the word "sin" throws you, we can call it whatever you like. Immoral behavior? Either way, I did not create it.

I know you didn't create 'sin', your 'savior' did.

Colossians 1:16 (NIV)

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

That's right, your buddy Jesus made sin for him, so that he could use it against us.


I just praise The Flying Spaghetti Monster that the entire story is a steaming dung heap.

Amen, God created free will which is the antecedent to sin.

I'm not sure how He uses it against us. If you choose to over eat, you get fat. Like you say below, there are consequences to your actions.

(October 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 7:05 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: My next question is - if you stumbled and asserted your correction, and this behavior was taught to you, were you truly forgiven or did that person or people have a no choice but to forgive you (rendering their forgiveness useless and insincere)?

Forgiveness, like apologizing is a choice. Each bear their respective consequences. They are not compulsory, but may be beneficial on an individual or group basis. I leave little room for altruism being anything more than a cause-and-effect theory in action.

But I see that you do believe in free will. And you say that altruism can be accounted for in cause-and-effect, like saying we as humans learned through trial-and-error that it is better to be kind then to be cruel, because that helps the group as a whole.

So, we get into human relations, which is where the idea of "sin" or "immoral behavior" centers itself.

Now, say I wronged you, something awful. Whatever it is, it is done, and the consequences have been laid out by the community. Does it mean anything that I come to seek your forgiveness? Just coming to apologize out of my own free will. Does that mean anything?

(October 28, 2013 at 6:43 pm)Zazzy Wrote: Are we going to have the morality conversation with EVERY SINGLE ONE of you uneducated twits?

Apparently so.

You'll have to excuse me, though - I need to go covet my neighbor's ass.

(October 28, 2013 at 7:36 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Amen, God created free will which is the antecedent to sin.

Explain this, please. I don't want to draw any undue inferences from your comment which really can mean many different things based on the approach with which you present said comment.

(October 28, 2013 at 7:36 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 6:58 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: That's right, your buddy Jesus made sin for him, so that he could use it against us.

I'm not sure how He uses it against us.

By telling me that I am a sinner from birth and that I need him from the get-go, or the sentence is eternity for me in a hell the he also created if I don't agree with his pronouncement of judgment. Extortion much? AND for something no one can prove I'm responsible for - I just inherit it (thanks god, but i reject THAT inheritance).

(October 28, 2013 at 7:36 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: Now, say I wronged you, something awful. Whatever it is, it is done, and the consequences have been laid out by the community. Does it mean anything that I come to seek your forgiveness? Just coming to apologize out of my own free will. Does that mean anything?

Your own free will? It is most likely that "your will" like mine, and most decent people, has been subconsciously shaped to agree with the social model over millions of years of evolution. Your 'sense' of where that comes from requires no more than your biological agreement with your current evolutionary composition.

On a side note; I would be inclined to accept your apology for the same reason that you made it - because our chemicals make us feel best when we agree with their ordered structure and function.

(October 28, 2013 at 6:55 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: No purpose to life, that means that you are completely free to make up your own purpose, do whatever you like.

Yep.

Quote:But this also means that you are can ignore logic? Since it means nothing. Just a bunch of babbling animals pretending to be something more than what they are.

Yep. People ignore logic all the time. Just like they ignore sarcasm so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Quote:Do you deny logic?

I prefer to deny ironclad data, but if none is available, I'll deny logic. I'm an atheist, after all, with no purpose, no morals, and no education.

Is anyone going to eat that last baby thigh? I'm still hungry.

(October 28, 2013 at 8:01 pm)Zazzy Wrote: Is anyone going to eat that last baby thigh? I'm still hungry.

Glutton!

(October 28, 2013 at 8:03 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 8:01 pm)Zazzy Wrote: Is anyone going to eat that last baby thigh? I'm still hungry.

Glutton!

Why the fuck not? There's no reason to stay thin. It's all so pointless. Wait a minute... THE BABY THIGH IS GONE. A classic distraction. You better go find another baby, cheater. I want this one marinated with ginger and lime, 'K?