Zen it was neither Good nore Evil just human.

EvF and Welsh . That's making a little more sense now. So the acts attributed to God in the Bible's OT are in line with an "evil dictator". I can agree with that. My problem is with the constant examples of allowances. ex. I passed out food to the homeless and gave them jobs over the holidays to make some money. According to some, because they were forced to stand in a line and because it wasn't all inclusive, that was evil. I should have fed more people and I should have come to them? I don't see where requiring something for something and giving it out in an orderly fashion is evil or contrary to how the laws of this universe work. From within the confines of this universe and plane of existance, effect requires cause. I don't think the cause of submission is, in and of itself, evil when good or evil is based solely off of intent and perception. I attribute the causes of suffering to humankind not God. Power and intellegence assumes attributes of God. perhaps he did all he needed to in the begining and we just don't see the reason or justification, more precisely the end result, of his intent.

(January 31, 2010 at 6:08 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So when bomber crews during the second world war dropped their weapons

on civilian populations were they being good or evil?

Evil.

(January 31, 2010 at 10:05 am)tackattack Wrote: My problem is with the constant examples of allowances. ex. I passed out food to the homeless and gave them jobs over the holidays to make some money. According to some, because they were forced to stand in a line and because it wasn't all inclusive, that was evil. I should have fed more people and I should have come to them? I don't see where requiring something for something and giving it out in an orderly fashion is evil or contrary to how the laws of this universe work. From within the confines of this universe and plane of existance, effect requires cause. I don't think the cause of submission is, in and of itself, evil when good or evil is based solely off of intent and perception.

Is the fact that you are unable to help everyone less fortunate than you, make you somehow deplorable? No. I'm talking about good and evil in practical useful terms for the moment, not universal definitions, or moral implications of someone choosing 'the greater good'.

Pains me to state the obvious but we each have limits to what we can achieve with the limited resources to hand and what actions we can perform, regardless of intent (self-serving or self-denying). Your inaction isn't "evil" when you are virtually unable to help people beyond your abilities.

Only if you could have made the difference, if someone needed your assistance, did you refuse, would your inaction be labelled as either "evil", "apathetic" or "selfish".

Quote:I attribute the causes of suffering to humankind not God. Power and intellegence assumes attributes of God. perhaps he did all he needed to in the begining and we just don't see the reason or justification, more precisely the end result, of his intent.

But that's a broad assertion since there's famine and disease in our world that does cause a great deal of suffering which, more often than not, isn't directly caused by humankind. Besides, the religious scriptures assert enough times Yahweh is responsible for the majority of human suffering.

1) OK so it isn't within my power to help everyone, agreed. Therefore, if someone sees God as having the "power" to help those in need and doesn't a lot of atheists call him Evil. The fact is he does help everyone, but you don't get something for nothing, and have to stand in line and accept the gift. To my knowledge I know of nowhere in the Bible or real life that shows God refusing to assist anyone who was truly accepting and needing.

2) yes it is a broad and accurate assertion. You said it yourself isn't directly caused by humankind. I can find no instance of famine or disease or other calamity that isn't directly/ indirectly relatable to Man's lack of understanding, control, manipulation, deciet or misaligned focus.

3) While your exageration is commendable I don't think you're going to be able to fund that statement with evidence that Yahweh is responsible for the majority of human suffering. Your tense is suggestive of modern human suffering. You might convince some Jews or funamentalist OT readers of that, but I take the Bible in it's entirety.

There is no such thing as evil ...evil is only live written backwards.
ergo
There is no such thing as good...good is only doog backwards.
(Or .... o god ...if you want to get creative)

So there's no such thing as semantics? Only scitnames?

Just like there is no such thing as sin.

There is quite alot of stuff masquerading as 'real' but are only idea constructs that "society" has agreed to in order to play power games.

(January 30, 2010 at 7:01 am)tackattack Wrote: The following got me to wanting to discuss.

(January 30, 2010 at 4:42 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Thanks for explaining that Rhiz. I'd agree with your sentiments there. Interesting point about condoning annoying character traits. Blimey I could almost consider playing devils advocate and defend the reality of evil... but I don't think I'll bother! Thanks again.

Ok. I'd like to get everyone's opinions on what evil is and whether it's real or not. I'l let everyone list some of theirs and then I'll list mine then we'll banter.

I know theres evil.

I've seen the American fox 'news'.

(January 31, 2010 at 8:07 pm)tackattack Wrote: To my knowledge I know of nowhere in ... real life that shows God refusing to assist anyone who was truly accepting and needing.

You've never seen people living under a bridge? You've never seen, or heard of, children starving to the point of death and disease?

I guess you would claim they are not truly needing nor accepting (they would refuse) of help?

(January 31, 2010 at 8:07 pm)tackattack Wrote: 1) OK so it isn't within my power to help everyone, agreed. Therefore, if someone sees God as having the "power" to help those in need and doesn't a lot of atheists call him Evil. The fact is he does help everyone,

No, according to the Bible God does not help everyone. And if you're arguing God doesn't have to help anyone then congratulations for proving atheists right, in that the Biblical portrayal of his character is indeed a complete monster. Please don't make me put up a link to 'Why Won't God Heal Amputees?' website just yet.

Quote:2) yes it is a broad and accurate assertion. You said it yourself isn't directly caused by humankind. I can find no instance of famine or disease or other calamity that isn't directly/ indirectly relatable to Man's lack of understanding, control, manipulation, deciet or misaligned focus.

Malaria is a mosquito-borne infectious disease caused by a eukaryotic protist of the genus Plasmodium. No mention of man's action and/or inaction led to this anywhere within the description.

Quote:3) While your exageration is commendable I don't think you're going to be able to fund that statement with evidence that Yahweh is responsible for the majority of human suffering. Your tense is suggestive of modern human suffering. You might convince some Jews or funamentalist OT readers of that, but I take the Bible in it's entirety.

According to Bible he sure causes a metric arseload of it, I'd like to think you're capable of doing your own research with regards to quoting the Bible, if you really claim to take the Bible in it's entirely. Shit, that was unthinkable for me even when I was a Christian, I loved the concept of God, but there were times when I always disagreed with his inhumane actions, after a long time finally woke up and I realised I was morally superior to the God in the Bible.