Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
(November 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm judging how a deity would behave based upon the abilities attributed to it. I find it hard to swallow that an omnipotent, omniscient deity would be concerned with such petty things as praise, which come about from the finite capacity for knowledge and emotional shortcomings.
That you find something hard to swallow is merely an argument from personal incredulity.
Quote:You said that god is pleased with obedience, and that obedience through suffering is greater than obedience with reward. Thus god derives pleasure from our suffering.
No, God derives pleasure from obedience.
Quote:That is true to an extent, but if we were omnipotent, as god is, our need to spend our resources on ourselves because we care too much about our own well-being wouldn't be a factor.
Irrelevant, as I'm only talking about luxuries.
Quote:No one's talking about receiving freely given praise.
Yes, that's exactly what God and Satan are talking about in Job.
Quote:We're talking about basic rights and necessities given for a maintainable existence,
Again, no, we're talking about luxuries. Rather than admit your hypocrisy, you try to build a straw man.
Quote:something which wouldn't be a burden or inconvenience to your god, yet you attempt to justify such inaction through reasons that would be of no concern to an omnipotent deity.
And we circle back to your argument from personal incredulity for good measure.
Ah, yes, my apologies. I wasn't attempting to build straw men. My circuits got crossed as I was having two conversations here. The other one was about starving children in Africa, and I suddenly thought we were talking about bare necessities. So, apologies for my last post and disregard it.
No, when I say that it's hard for me to swallow that a deity would be concerned with such desires, it isn't due to personal credulity, just like my inability to swallow someone's claim that they were golfing on Mars with Elvis Presley. The human need for praise is due our emotional needs and desire to be accepted by our peers. It's the human attempt to find a place and a purpose in this universe. A god has no such needs and limitations. That is why it is hard to believe.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
(November 8, 2013 at 9:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote: No, when I say that it's hard for me to swallow that a deity would be concerned with such desires, it isn't due to personal credulity, just like my inability to swallow someone's claim that they were golfing on Mars with Elvis Presley. The human need for praise is due our emotional needs and desire to be accepted by our peers. It's the human attempt to find a place and a purpose in this universe. A god has no such needs and limitations. That is why it is hard to believe.
A desire isn't necessarily based on a need. This is a common faulty argument. That god does something or wants something doesn't necessarily mean that ne needs it.
(November 9, 2013 at 9:13 am)John V Wrote: A desire isn't necessarily based on a need. This is a common faulty argument. That god does something or wants something doesn't necessarily mean that ne needs it.
Without referencing god, can you name a desire that isn't based on need? Needs are the very foundation of desires. If I desire money, it is to buy material things, and those material things fill an emotional hole in my psyche. It is the need to fill that emotional hole that feeds my desire. We don't desire something unless we gain something from it, and we don't gain anything from that something unless it fills a need. Therefore, god must be fulfilling some need with his desires, yet desires such as praise fill needs for emotional beings that need acceptance and a purpose in life. Praise is for those that need validation. Why would a god need validation, especially from its lowly creations that are extremely inferior?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
your body might crave the sugar you know. Maybe you're diabetic and your sugar levels are low. Maybe you're slightly depressed so your body wants a shock of sugar to release the seratonin. Maybe you saw a donut commercial and your subconscious got inundated with unwanted need to fulfill yourself with donut, by means of suggestive advertising. Or maybe you had a donut this same day last year and you smelt something that triggered your memory and desire for donuts. Maybe your body is craving carbs because you just did something physical. Or perhaps you fulfill your emotional needs with sugary pastries. Who knows? Long story short, there's always a reason for wanting a donut.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
