(November 12, 2013 at 12:29 am)Esquilax Wrote: Even if this plan works as intended, it's only going to end up harmful!

Perhaps not. Consider this: over the long term, they might help the North Koreans replace an existing despotic tyrant with a mythical one. They'd be one step closer to dispensing with the whole idiotic idea of letting a dangerous maniac guide their lives!

Or the North Koreans, suffering in cold Korean winter, could burn the bibles for warmth.

(November 13, 2013 at 11:53 am)Drich Wrote:

(November 12, 2013 at 7:30 pm)Esquilax Wrote: This implies that you think that a single drop of bibles, made completely at random (they were drifted over on a balloon with a timer mechanism, remember) constitutes enough of a political upheaval that it's worth the risk of getting some citizens killed. Do you honestly think that revolutions are so easily accomplished?

I think the story is propaganda to 'explain' if/where the bibles came from that maybe showing up in N/K.

This is to divert attention from an active/on going supply line or continous effort.

Quote:Real quick: name for me a single other revolution against an autocratic regime that was won solely through small amounts of literature dispersed at random by single, equally ideologically motivated groups on the outside.

All major communists take overs begin this way. That is why in the 50 and 60's being labled a communist or a commie propergandist was such a career ending stigma to anyone in the US especially those in the media or movies of that era.

Drich Wrote:So the problem remains if ALL avenues of free thought are forbiden, and these people only know life under a theocracy, ask yourself what is the best way to effect change in that country if China is backing the current leadership and wont allow anyone to say boo about them? Change if it happens will only happen from within. If it doesn't these poor brainwashed people will fight to defend their 'god' down to the last man woman and child, just like the japs were ready to do in WWII, and Like their grandparents did in the first Korean conflict.

Quote:Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point again: I agree with you that change needs to happen for the better there. Where we differ is that I don't need to leap to the defense of every stupid fucking thing that's done with a bible, and so I can see that not only is this action likely to be ineffective or dangerous, but that the motivation behind it was clear self aggrandizing, and not based on a sincere desire to help, because people tend to put more thought into these things it they actually want to help.

I did not miss the point, i acknoweledge it and made the assertion that these people for the last 100 years have only known theocratic rule. That being the case the only way to topple a 'god' in the hearts and minds of a brain washed people, is to show that their 'god/leader' to be a false God. They have to come to this on their own.

If you try and introduce the ideas of self worship that you all have adopted for yourselves it will be quickly identified as western propaganda, and dismissed without another thought. If you push this idea of self worship then they will simply dig in deeper.

The only way to topple the hold the Kim's have on N/K is to introduce them to the freedom the God of the bible offers, as worship of a god is all they know. They will not simply drop 100 years of tradition for the sake of being like you. That idea scares them as much as the idea of you being forced to do and think as they do.

Quote:Real quick, the second: you understand that the populace of North Korea has been brainwashed through endless propaganda to believe America is their sworn enemy, and hates them. What do you think they are likely to be thinking when an entirely contextless drop of hated American materials fall from the sky, with no additional material besides testimonies purporting to be from defectors? Do you honestly, actually think such a thing is going to be believed out of hand, by a group of people assailed from birth with news of how evil and terrible these things are?

I don't know if your aware or not, but South Korea's primary Religion is Christianity. The Christian efforts to win the Hearts and minds of the N/Ks undoubtedly have to be coordinated with the koreans who live in the south. even if americans sponsor this effort it does not make sense to send them english bibles.

Quote:Maybe you need to do more and less

I absolutly love it when you guys say that I need to 'think more.' It usally means that with in one or two more posts you will jump the shark (deviate from the orginal topic) and start in with the personal insults.

And drich, what makes you think kim jung un won't simply find a way to play himself up as the coming of Christ or god representative on earth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/...54893.html

Quote:Eighty people have been executed in North Korea for watching foreign TV and owning bibles, a South Korean newspaper has claimed.

Seoul’s JoongAng Ilbo daily reports that the killings took place across seven different cities on 3 November.

Although only identifying a "single unidentified" source, the story has gained credence after similar reports were gathered by a news agency run by North Korean defectors.

(November 13, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(November 13, 2013 at 11:53 am)Drich Wrote: I don't know if your aware or not, but South Korea's primary Religion is Christianity. The Christian efforts to win the Hearts and minds of the N/Ks undoubtedly have to be coordinated with the koreans who live in the south. even if americans sponsor this effort it does not make sense to send them english bibles.

Just because South Korea has had one farce of a christian Hyundai Scion president a few years back who had been tactless about his christianity even by the ususal standards of christian tactlessness, Drich thinks South Korea is primarily christian.

No, buffoon, half of your genetic heritage actually came from a population 70% of which is better than you, that is to say non-christian. A small presence of strident and loud moutheds christian idiots has not changed the fact that 70% of South Korean population identify themselves as Buddist.

Oh I love it when you d-bags get smug without proof!!! Because when I provide proof that supports my position I visualize that scene in American History X where Ed norton makes the guy put his teeth on the curb and then stomps down knocking his teeth out.
(Because it takes the bite out of your arguements completely and leaves you 'toothless.')

Are you ready? open your mouth and put your teeth on the curb!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Korea

In the above link you will note that 44.6% claim no religious affiliation. Which means they are not apart of any religion, which does not affect what i said at all. Because I Said: "The primary RELIGION was Christianity."

Then you will note, that Budhism follows in the chart at 22.8% (not 70% like you claimed.)

Then the protestants (non-catholics) at 18.3%

Then the Catholics at 10.9%

Since Catholics and Non-Cathoilc worship the Same Jesus, they are both technically 'Christian.' As such those two numbers get added together. 18.3+10.9= 29.2% I may not read so good but I am pretty decent with Math, well at least I am profecient enough to know that 29.2 is > 22.8. Which means that Christianity is the LARGEST Religion in South Korea.


Just in case you don't like wiki:
http://www.korea.net/AboutKorea/Korean-Life/Religion
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications...os/ks.html

I know a good dentist if you need one.

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(November 13, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(November 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Unless a significant portion of the military is turned, a key portion of most revolutions. The starvation could be alleviated substantially by lifting economic sanctions.

Unfortunately the military is among the first fed, so it's unlikely they'll turn against the government. Kim Jong Il was no idiot, he knew that in order to keep a loyal military he had to keep their bread buttered.

It's Kimchee and rice.

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(November 13, 2013 at 1:41 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: And drich, what makes you think kim jung un won't simply find a way to play himself up as the coming of Christ or god representative on earth.

With a bible in the hands of everyone who wants to worship Christ, they will be able to see that 'Un' is an Anti (not) Christ.

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(November 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(November 12, 2013 at 12:29 am)Esquilax Wrote: Even if this plan works as intended, it's only going to end up harmful!

Perhaps not. Consider this: over the long term, they might help the North Koreans replace an existing despotic tyrant with a mythical one. They'd be one step closer to dispensing with the whole idiotic idea of letting a dangerous maniac guide their lives!

If they did through out the Kims, Because of Christianity, given enough time they too would become just as 'luke warm' or even turn their back on God just like the rest of us have that same oppertunity.

That is what this life is about. The ablity to make that choice and to help others see and make it for themselves.

On the plus side we have one less lunitic trying to hold the world at ransom.

Yes Drich let's go ahead and ignore the eighty executions thus far that provides backing for the fact that quite a few of these people are being killed as a direct result from your religions meddling, and go after the small fry topic of what South Korea's major religion is. Bravo sir I love your priorities.

(November 13, 2013 at 1:55 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/...54893.html

Quote:Eighty people have been executed in North Korea for watching foreign TV and owning bibles, a South Korean newspaper has claimed.

Seoul’s JoongAng Ilbo daily reports that the killings took place across seven different cities on 3 November.

Although only identifying a "single unidentified" source, the story has gained credence after similar reports were gathered by a news agency run by North Korean defectors.

And you all say that persecution of Christians is all made up.

(November 13, 2013 at 2:28 pm)Drich Wrote: Oh I love it when you d-bags get smug without proof!!! Because when I provide proof that supports my position I visualize that scene in American History X where Ed norton makes the guy put his teeth on the curb and then stomps down knocking his teeth out.
(Because it takes the bite out of your arguements completely and leaves you 'toothless.')

Are you ready? open your mouth and put your teeth on the curb!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Korea

In the above link you will note that 44.6% claim no religious affiliation. Which means they are not apart of any religion, which does not affect what i said at all. Because I Said: "The primary RELIGION was Christianity."

Then you will note, that Budhism follows in the chart at 22.8% (not 70% like you claimed.)

Then the protestants (non-catholics) at 18.3%

Then the Catholics at 10.9%

Since Catholics and Non-Cathoilc worship the Same Jesus, they are both technically 'Christian.' As such those two numbers get added together. 18.3+10.9= 29.2% I may not read so good but I am pretty decent with Math, well at least I am profecient enough to know that 29.2 is > 22.8. Which means that Christianity is the LARGEST Religion in South Korea.


Just in case you don't like wiki:
http://www.korea.net/AboutKorea/Korean-Life/Religion
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications...os/ks.html

I know a good dentist if you need one.

Even better, 52% of South Koreans are atheists, that's even better than Buddists.

But buddists are so much better than you christains we can almost count them as auxiliarys.

And most importantly, 70.2% of South Koreans even by your calculation spit on your "christ". So much for christain nation.

I am generous. I will permit you to fish your teeth out of your own scat to have them reimplanted back into your mouth.

It would be a neat experiment

Dump a bunch of bibles (just the word, not those study bibles with the apologetics/propaganda around the scripture) all over the country.

Just the books no preachers allowed in.

And see what goofy version of christianity comes out of it.


Or maybe they will end up using the books for other things.

Their short on toilet paper too.

.

(November 13, 2013 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote:

(November 13, 2013 at 1:55 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/...54893.html

And you all say that persecution of Christians is all made up.

Show me where he said that or I yell straw man.

Funny that that all you see is Christian persecution where others see unnecessary death for having a book of fairy tales.

Edited for a damn autocorrect error.