Well, at least we've not at the absolute bottom in the U.S.. (That must really piss off our republicans.) Of course we may still be at the bottom if you consider the number beds per 1000 population X the percent of the population that is not obese. Our need for those beds makes their scarcity more sorely felt.

(November 24, 2013 at 8:40 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: You say you have truth, and naturally you think you are right. But every other theist here thinks they are right as well. Nothing differentiates you from them, you are not special.

Yes he is.

Which brings us to the OP...

A good reason to be an Atheist: The existence of Theists

(November 24, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(November 24, 2013 at 8:40 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: You say you have truth, and naturally you think you are right. But every other theist here thinks they are right as well. Nothing differentiates you from them, you are not special.

Yes he is.

(November 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: I see what you're getting at, but you're forgetting a few key factors. Firstly, not only has the average life expectancy increased, but the number of people surviving to that age as also increased - the global population has quadrupled in the last 100 years. A lot of illnesses, diseases and conditions that primarily affect the elderly will occur much more frequently, simply because there are more elderly people to be affected by them.
Another point worth mentioning is that our ability to recognise and diagnose new illnesses has definitely improved, so a lot of those "new" illnesses aren't new at all.
There are also a range of factors in modern day life that can contribute to things such as cancer, many of which we have yet to determine, but it is undeniable that our ability to diagnose, treat and cure such diseases and conditions has dramatically improved.
I think the most important thing to consider when discussing the amount of empty hospital beds is the number of hospital beds per capita. I think it's that percentage going down, rather the number of illnesses going up, which is causing the problem.

Thanks for bringing forwards these statistics.
However there is one thing that you guys do not understand.
Suppose in a river there is more and more water.
The banks or levees start overflow.
What you do?
You tend to put bags of sand or do something else so the water would not come where you live.
What then happen?
It will happen that the water will start spilling elsewhere.
The same thing happen with the effect originated from the cause in the medical issue.
The only way to stop having effect is to prevent the cause in the first place.
Can medical science do this?
Of course it can not because within this finite world the positive always come with the negative (yin & young) so there is no way that medical science will ever come on top.
All it can do is try to limit the damages and that is all.
The cause of all trouble and not only medical trouble can be solved there where there is no negative factor and that is in spirituality but that is something that you guys and medical science as well still do not know much about.

(November 24, 2013 at 2:43 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(November 24, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Yes he is.

HA.

Down to a tee.

(November 25, 2013 at 4:59 am)enrico Wrote: The only way to stop having effect is to prevent the cause in the first place.
Can medical science do this?
Of course it can not because within this finite world the positive always come with the negative (yin & young) so there is no way that medical science will ever come on top.
The cause of all trouble and not only medical trouble can be solved there where there is no negative factor and that is in spirituality but that is something that you guys and medical science as well still do not know much about.

That's not entirely true. There are many spiritualist "cures" for ailments, none of which can be shown to have any effect beyond being a placebo.

Modern medical science, on the other hand, has proven to be remarkable effective in both treatment and prevention of illness.

I don't really have the time to do the research right now, but I'm pretty damn sure that while the number of hospital beds per capita in 1st world countries has fallen (at least in general), the instance of infection per capita within same counties has fallen a damn sight more dramatically. You have to bear in mind that it's not just the application of surgical procedures and pharmaceuticals that caused this drop in diseases, it's also due to improved sanitation, easy access to clean water, better food hygiene, etc...

Do you have anything to show that there is, or at least could be, such a thing as you're suggesting (a sort of "disease equilibrium", for want of a better term)?

I'm tickled by the idea that the high and persistent turmover of patients in hospitals - a.k.a. places to obtain medical attention and treatment - is proof that medical science is somehow not working. It's exactly the same as arguing that the high number of kids in schools proves that people are getting dumber, or the massive amounts of unsold food in supermarkets proves that we in the affluent West must be starving.

(November 25, 2013 at 7:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm tickled by the idea that the high and persistent turmover of patients in hospitals - a.k.a. places to obtain medical attention and treatment - is proof that medical science is somehow not working. It's exactly the same as arguing that the high number of kids in schools proves that people are getting dumber, or the massive amounts of unsold food in supermarkets proves that we in the affluent West must be starving.

Gee, what i am going to do with you?
Sometime ago you said that analogies are not good and then now you come down with analogies!
I will have to reconsider whether i should take away the kudos i gave you in the past. hock:
Anyway one thing is sure and that is that whatever does not work in life is due to the fact that an imbalance has occurred.
Considering that materialism is so important for atheism there is no wonder that you will find quite difficult to understand how the system works but in a short ANALOGY i will explain to you what an imbalance is.
Suppose 3 horses are pulling a cart.
Now the driver feed only 1 or 2 horses so the cart can not go straight because the pull is not even or uniform.
Considering that human being (whether you like it or not) have 3 characteristics (physical, mental and spiritual (consciousness)) then we can easy see how so many things in life are not working considering that most people feed only the material side and some degree of mental only.
Capish?

That doesn't make any sense. Give examples. Don't just say things are "not working" thus-GOD. In your analogy we can easily understand what's wrong with the horse. There is evidence. Prove that people have souls, and marshal out your evidence that some people are weaker due to theirs having a lack of nourishment. If you can't do that, your analogy fails to be useful. Remember, it has to make sense to everyone. Not just you.