(December 1, 2013 at 1:03 pm)whateverist Wrote: I say we board the sucker up.

No way, I'm sure I have at least a dozen more most important reasons I'm an atheist.

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How about the store discounts?
The reserved car spaces?

(December 1, 2013 at 9:17 am)enrico Wrote: The evidence is that.........
1) You keep on talking about the rich countries where many people can afford to delay the inevitable and not the global situation in which 80-90% of the people can not and die in the gutter.

Yes, because those are the countries with the best medical care. Kind of a weird correlation that, the nations with the better health care having better health

Quote:2) Delaying the inevitable does not solve any problem either because they live a life of shit or because they carry on the present problem in a future life as they are not changing the way they live eliminating in this way the cause that produce the effect.

You might actually have a valid point. At least, if it wasn't for the fact that quality of life for those with terminal conditions is also being improved. Why don't you tell someone who's had their cancer go into remission that they are living a life of shit. Even in those cases where an eventual relapse is almost guaranteed, breakthroughs are being made all the time. Funny how those pesky facts keep getting in the way of your bullshit ideas, isn't it?

Cancer survival statistics

Quote:3) Medical science is mainly concerned about studying and eliminate the effect and very little about finding out what cause these effect.

Bullshit. Now you're being wilfully stupid.

NIH scientists find cause of rare immune disease

Scientists use new technology to study whole genome to find the cause of genetic disease

Scientists Find a Potential Cause of Parkinson’s Disease

Quote:4) Saturated fats and toxins are the main causes of too many diseases but you will find that most doctors will tell you that meat and eggs are ok. so when people are put on the wrong path it will be very difficult to see improvement in health.

I don't think anyone would claim that science is infallible. Yes, mistakes are made, but medical science (like all science) is a process of constant revision and improvement. What advanycements have been made in spiritualism in the last few decades? I hope you're not going to say that spiritualism has been perfected and no more improvement is necessary, are you?

Quote:A RESULT is when you sort of find a permanent solution to a certain problem.
But NO.
These are just research made on mice.
They may be promising as much as you want but until they come up with a PERMANENT solution then they are like farts.[/.quote]
Tell that to smallpox. It's called research, dipshit.

[quote]
Soon or later they will find a solution of course but the real problem can not be eliminated until you feed the 3 horses that are within (physical, mental and spiritual).

Still waiting on that evidence for spiritual cures.

Quote:The boundaries of what is possible.
Not really.
Medical science without spirituality can not do that at the moment as it works in an arena in which the positive and the negative balance always each other.
The day that spirituality will be taken in the proper account the we will see real progress.
Why?
Because unlike the physical and mental aspect spirituality does not come with the negative side.

Again, I'm still waiting for that evidence.

(December 1, 2013 at 9:17 am)enrico Wrote:

(November 30, 2013 at 8:03 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: Wow, that's some great evidence you presented. "Delaying the inevitable" is exactly what I've been talking about: people are living longer. This is reducing annual mortality rates, increasing population size and reducing the ratio of hospital beds to people.

The evidence is that.........
1) You keep on talking about the rich countries where many people can afford to delay the inevitable and not the global situation in which 80-90% of the people can not and die in the gutter.
2) Delaying the inevitable does not solve any problem either because they live a life of shit or because they carry on the present problem in a future life as they are not changing the way they live eliminating in this way the cause that produce the effect.
3) Medical science is mainly concerned about studying and eliminate the effect and very little about finding out what cause these effect.
4) Saturated fats and toxins are the main causes of too many diseases but you will find that most doctors will tell you that meat and eggs are ok. so when people are put on the wrong path it will be very difficult to see improvement in health.

Quote:It took me less time to find the answer to that question than it took you to write it. These are just the first results that came up for each:

A RESULT is when you sort of find a permanent solution to a certain problem.
But NO.
These are just research made on mice.
They may be promising as much as you want but until they come up with a PERMANENT solution then they are like farts.
Have you got an idea how many times medical science said that they found the cure for malaria?
So many times that i can't keep up the count.
It work for a while and then the mosquitoes come up with a different system so the research continue for ever and ever.
They give hope and make you feel better but the problem stay until the solution is found.
Soon or later they will find a solution of course but the real problem can not be eliminated until you feed the 3 horses that are within (physical, mental and spiritual).

Quote:Medical science (like all science) is exactly where it's always been: on the forefront of human knowledge and constantly pushing back the boundaries of what is possible.
Now how about you actually back up your assertions?

The boundaries of what is possible.
Not really.
Medical science without spirituality can not do that at the moment as it works in an arena in which the positive and the negative balance always each other.
The day that spirituality will be taken in the proper account the we will see real progress.
Why?
Because unlike the physical and mental aspect spirituality does not come with the negative side.

I'd like to post a response to this. Sadly, my brain is so full of fuck, I can't.

The positive and negative of medical science balance each other out?! Spirituality in medicine?! Not wishing to be rude and apologies to the mods but are you fucking high!?

Apologies unnecessary, Jacob. Rico doesn't know rude from a hole in the ground.

You know what really burns me about the people who claim to be skeptics about "western meficine"? They still fucking use it! Most of us are alive today only because medical science stopped us becoming an infant mortality statistic.

"quick this man is having an asthma attack, is there a spiritualist on the airplane? "

"No, I don't want pain killers for my broken leg or antibiotics for my childs meningitis, drugs just prolong the disease "

said NOBODY EVER!!

That was touched on in this now-classic Doonesbury strip:

(December 1, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Apologies unnecessary, Jacob. Rico doesn't know rude from a hole in the ground.

Señor Enrico doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

(December 1, 2013 at 4:23 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: Yes, because those are the countries with the best medical care. Kind of a weird correlation that, the nations with the better health care having better health

It smell of rot.
Pharmaceutical companies are there for the big money and too many doctors in collusion with these companies are also there for the big money so only the rich can afford the medications while 80-90% of the people can not and die in the gutter.
Didn't the doctors swear to the Hippocratic Oath that they will look after the interest of the sick?
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html
So where you think are we heading to if not down hill in the gutter?
How can you call this progress?

Quote:You might actually have a valid point. At least, if it wasn't for the fact that quality of life for those with terminal conditions is also being improved. Why don't you tell someone who's had their cancer go into remission that they are living a life of shit. Even in those cases where an eventual relapse is almost guaranteed, breakthroughs are being made all the time. Funny how those pesky facts keep getting in the way of your bullshit ideas, isn't it?

Eh, i work for QLD. health as a nurse so i may have a practical experience.
What do you have?
Every working day i see patients who tell me that is better to die then to live like that (a life of shit).
You are talking only about cancer.
What about all the rest.
People stuck in wheelchairs that have to be helped even to go to the toilet?
If you would give the magical tablet that would put an end to their life they would take it straight away.

Quote:I don't think anyone would claim that science is infallible. Yes, mistakes are made, but medical science (like all science) is a process of constant revision and improvement.

It would be if it follow the Hippocratic oath.
Unfortunately it doesn't.

Quote:What advanycements have been made in spiritualism in the last few decades? I hope you're not going to say that spiritualism has been perfected and no more improvement is necessary, are you?

It hasn't because it doesn't need to be perfected.
Spirituality is the effort to sprout the seed within and the seed is perfect so it does not need to be perfected.
All it need is to make it sprout.

Quote:Tell that to smallpox. It's called research, dipshit.

Unfortunately your skull is too small to contain enough brains.
I already explained what happen when you prevent the flood from spilling in a particular area.
It will spill elsewhere.
You can eliminate smallpox but then the spill will create a new disease or damage some other part of your body or mind or both.
How can you be so stupid not to understand how the system works.
It is only by preventing the flood that the spills can be avoided not by avoiding the spill in one place.

Quote:Still waiting on that evidence for spiritual cures.

Have you ever seen a cart being pulled by 3 horses when only 1 or 2 are in good nick and the other one or 2 are left to starve?
Where you think the cart can go in such a situation?
That is how the medical science is going at the moment.
One day they find a cure to a particular disease and the next day they have to find a solution to a new problem.

Fucking hell Enrico, you're a nurse? May the spirits save us...

(November 30, 2013 at 1:08 pm)enrico Wrote: By the way malaria which is the N. 1 killer globaly speaking has no cure and so dementia, Parkinson, Alzaheimer and diabetes just to mention the few so where this great medical science is?

FALSE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cau...th_by_rate

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre..._worldwide (Preventable because Malaria deaths are preventable)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/...s-research (1.2m people die each ear of Malaria, according to some research, still a minute fraction when taken in context).

I wonder what the next assertion will be?

BTW, there was no 'cure' for smallpox.

How many people do you know personally who have died of that recently?

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(December 1, 2013 at 1:03 pm)whateverist Wrote: I have a theory. This thread actually is dead but it's haunted by enrico's ghost. I say we board the sucker up.

A-fucking men.

Enrico, I think, is just a parody of how mentally disabled someone can get when they drink too much kool-aid.

Rico, it's official: you're not allowed science anymore.