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December 14, 2013 at 7:19 pm (This post was last modified: December 14, 2013 at 7:25 pm by Lemonvariable72.)
(December 14, 2013 at 6:43 pm)Nineteen Wrote:
(December 14, 2013 at 6:29 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Islamic Golden Age?
If by Golden Age you mean, "We conquered all the intelligent places and then took credit for them before shutting off progress by forcing conversion to Islam (under the pressures of dhimmitude), then sure.
The Muslim concentration within a population is proportional to the decline of scientific achievement. It is no accident that the Muslim world has had little to show for itself in the last 800 years or so, since running out of new civilizations to cannibalize.
In fact, the religion tends to discourage knowledge outside of itself, which is why the most prolific Muslim scholars are usually students of religion rather than science.
Can you give me examples for this conquered countries which was advanced in science , together their inventions and discoveries . I want to learn .
And can you explain me how you can make a person muslim by force ?
Persia, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Just to name a few.
Persia Lets see
500 BC) World's oldest Staple (fastener).
(500 BC) The first Taxation system (under the Achaemenid Empire).
(500 BC) The first courier post. Also called the "Royal Road".
(500 BC) - Source for introduction of the domesticated chicken into Europe.
(500 BC) - First cultivation of spinach
An ancient ice house, called a yakhchal, built in ancient times for storing ice during summers.
Spoon crafted in 550BC.
(400 BC) - Yakhchals , ancient refrigerators. (See picture above)
(400 BC) - Ice Cream.[22]
(250 BC) - According to archaeological digs, the Parthians created the world's first batteries. Their original use is still uncertain, though it is suspected that they were used for electroplating.
(250 BC) Original excavation of a Suez Canal.
(271 AD) - The teaching hospital
Turkey ( Eastern roman empire.)
Flamethrowers
Greek fire
Incendary grenades
Need I list more?
Ship mills
Pointed arch bridge
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
(December 14, 2013 at 6:43 pm)Nineteen Wrote: Can you give me examples for this conquered countries which was advanced in science , together their inventions and discoveries . I want to learn.
And can you explain me how you can make a person muslim by force ?
Well, to start off: the country of Spain alone, translates more learning material and literature into Spanish each year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the 9th century.
As the Saudi Grand Mufti bluntly put it in 2010, "The Quran with its stories and knowledge are sufficient for us... we don't need the Torah, or Gospels, or any other book"
First, the Muslim world benefited greatly from the Greek sciences, which were translated for them by dhimmi Christians and Jews.
Secondly, many of the scientific advances credited to Islam were actually “borrowed” from other cultures conquered by the Muslims. The algebraic concept of “zero”, for example, is erroneously attributed to Islam when, in fact, it was a Hindu discovery that was merely introduced to the West by Muslims.
Third, even accomplished Muslim scientists and cultural icons were often considered heretics in their day, sometimes with good reason. One of the greatest achievers to come out of the Muslim world was the Persian scientist and philosopher, al-Razi. His impressive works are often held up today as “proof” of Muslim accomplishment. But what the apologists often leave out is that al-Razi was denounced as a blasphemer, since he followed his own religious beliefs – which were in obvious contradiction to traditional Islam.
Fourth, even the contributions that are attributed to Islam (often inaccurately) are not terribly dramatic. There is the 'invention' of certain words, such as alchemy and elixir (and assassin, by the way), but not much else that survives in modern technology which is of practical significance. Neither is there any reason to believe that such discoveries would not have easily been made by the West following the cultural awakening triggered by the Reformation.
As an example, consider that Muslims claim credit for coffee - in the sense that they popularized existing knowledge of Africans who were caught up in the Arab slave trade.
In fact, the litany of “Muslim” achievement often takes the form of rhapsody, in which the true origins of these discoveries are omitted - along with their comparative significance to Western achievement. One often doesn't hear about the dismal fate of original accomplishments either. Those who brag about the great observatory of Taqi al-Din in [freshly conquered] Istanbul, for example, often neglect to mention that it was quickly destroyed by the caliphate.
At the end of the day, the record of scientific, medical and technological accomplishment is not something over which Muslim apologists want to get into a contest with the Christian world. Today’s Islamic innovators are primarily known for turning Western technology, such as cell phones and airplanes, into instruments of mass murder.
To sum up, although the Islamic religion is not entirely hostile to science, neither should it be confused as a facilitator. The great achievements that are said to have come out of the Islamic world were made either by non-Muslims who happened to be under Islamic rule, or by heretics who usually had little interest in Islam. Scientific discovery tapers off dramatically as Islam asserts dominance, until it eventually peters out altogether.
Nineteen Wrote:And can you explain me how you can make a person muslim by force ?
Is a child who is born, grown up told to believe in Allah or be killed, not forced?
Is a people who are subjugated by rules and regulations excessively until they convert, not forced?
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
Moriskas were not christians , they were muslims who were forced to live like christian as second class citizens .
600.000 of them has been driven out of Spain and 75% of 800.000 has been killed . (is an excerpt from the book "Les Morisques")
You cant change the people's belief with force .
Well... judging by the number of muslims in the Iberian Peninsula, nowadays... I'd say it worked!
So, yes, given enough generations, it is possible to change a people's beliefs.
Now, if you mean a single person, then, if you believe enough, no... I'd say it's not possible to change that person's belief.
But, for people who never think about it and don't care... it can be extremely easy to change their minds.
Then you have the gullibles... how did christianity become so famous in the first century?
(December 14, 2013 at 7:00 pm)feeling Wrote: Syria, Byzantine, Egypt(pretty damn advanced to the time if you ask me),Italy, the remains of the Alexandria library(biggest library in the world at the time) was destroyed under orders of Caliph Omar who stated “If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them.”
Source http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2010/...lexandria/
Also I found only one muslim scientist who contributed to islamic golden age but his religion is under question and there are still disputes. Those 2 who made biggest contributions however are Omar Khayyám and Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī first being agnostic hedonist and latter being adherent of the Zoroastarianism.
As for making somebody muslim by force it means taking away privelages from non muslims while giving privelages to the muslims or inducing sanctions on non muslims.
Egypt and Syria were ruled by Byzantine for long time before the muslims and Byzantine Empire had only a few scientists , 2 or 3 . So we can understand that this scientific developments and golden age has been through the efforts of Muslims .
Why you behave sided according to your intrests ? There is no such a cetain belief that the library was destroyed by Omar . The big part of histarians thinks that it was destroyed by Pagans or Caesar and many historians reject the view that it was burned by muslims. (wikipedia)
(December 14, 2013 at 7:00 pm)feeling Wrote: Syria, Byzantine, Egypt(pretty damn advanced to the time if you ask me),Italy, the remains of the Alexandria library(biggest library in the world at the time) was destroyed under orders of Caliph Omar who stated “If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them.”
Source http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2010/...lexandria/
Also I found only one muslim scientist who contributed to islamic golden age but his religion is under question and there are still disputes. Those 2 who made biggest contributions however are Omar Khayyám and Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī first being agnostic hedonist and latter being adherent of the Zoroastarianism.
As for making somebody muslim by force it means taking away privelages from non muslims while giving privelages to the muslims or inducing sanctions on non muslims.
Egypt and Syria were ruled by Byzantine for long time before the muslims and Byzantine Empire had only a few scientists , 2 or 3 . So we can understand that this scientific developments and golden age has been through the efforts of Muslims .
Why you behave sided according to your intrests ? There is no such a cetain belief that the library was destroyed by Omar . The big part of histarians thinks that it was destroyed by Pagans or Caesar and many historians reject the view that it was burned by muslims. (wikipedia)
It was destroyed partially by Caesar before Omar. But Omar burned down the rest of it. Pagans? Never heard that.
Behave sided? That's just hypocritical.
Also provide sources which state that byzantine had only few scientists and the muslim scientists which contributed to the golden age. I could find only one.
December 14, 2013 at 8:28 pm (This post was last modified: December 14, 2013 at 8:30 pm by Sleepy.)
Yes Allah knows the future. He knows everything.
Quran 103:1 By time,
Quran 103:2
Indeed, mankind is in loss,
Quran 103:3
Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.
Umar is an enemy of Islam. He is an ignorant human being and a enemy of the Prophet. His actions were seen after the death of Rasool Allah
Why did Prophet Muhammad allow him in his company? From his mouth came that he is a Muslim who worships Allah, he had committed no crime to be persecuted for. Burning books is against Islam.
They are to be treated with respect, not stepped on and not put on the ground.
Those verses have nothing to do with Allah knowing the future.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
December 14, 2013 at 8:37 pm (This post was last modified: December 14, 2013 at 8:40 pm by Sleepy.)
The individuals who are talking about the 'Islamic Golden Age' need to go to sources and history instead of the false statements.
Muslims compiled works of Chinese, Indian, Greek origin. All which had never been compiled in such a grand scale in the history of humanity. The west would know nothing about Socrates if it wasn't for the Muslims.
They compiled and they advanced extraordinarily those works. Math, science they expounded on. They put trigonometry into the common form, chemistry got a real groundwork by Muslim scientists, the first hospitals, the important of hygiene had never been stressed in history until that point, architecture, philosophy among other things. This is all in history and has been established by academic scholars and not the lies being spouted on here. Spain expelled the Muslims living there but kept all the science, mathematical and especially medical writings and books.
This was while Europe was drinking the same water it defecated in.
Christian Europe expelled Jews and Christians while Muslims allowed Jews and Christians to live and open businesses in Jerusalem.
This is established fact and denying this makes you incredibly ignorant.
If many governments in the Middle East reform and remove the foreign influences as well as the corruption, Shia Sunni fighting not being instigated by evil forces then indeed Muslim countries will be the peaceful and advanced hub as it was before and Iran is getting there most definitely.
Those verses from the Holy Quran have to do with humanity and what the purpose of life is.improving your character, living righteously, patience, these are all virtues. A virtuous person does not force his wife to have sex. Neither does a virtuous people kill and attack innocents. The decision for the path to take is yours and there will in fact be a Day of Judgement and you will have your one on one with Allah. Don't disrespect your parents either
December 14, 2013 at 8:41 pm (This post was last modified: December 14, 2013 at 8:45 pm by Nineteen.)
(December 14, 2013 at 7:37 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Well, to start off: the country of Spain alone, translates more learning material and literature into Spanish each year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the 9th century.
As the Saudi Grand Mufti bluntly put it in 2010, "The Quran with its stories and knowledge are sufficient for us... we don't need the Torah, or Gospels, or any other book"
First, the Muslim world benefited greatly from the Greek sciences, which were translated for them by dhimmi Christians and Jews.
Secondly, many of the scientific advances credited to Islam were actually “borrowed” from other cultures conquered by the Muslims. The algebraic concept of “zero”, for example, is erroneously attributed to Islam when, in fact, it was a Hindu discovery that was merely introduced to the West by Muslims.
Third, even accomplished Muslim scientists and cultural icons were often considered heretics in their day, sometimes with good reason. One of the greatest achievers to come out of the Muslim world was the Persian scientist and philosopher, al-Razi. His impressive works are often held up today as “proof” of Muslim accomplishment. But what the apologists often leave out is that al-Razi was denounced as a blasphemer, since he followed his own religious beliefs – which were in obvious contradiction to traditional Islam.
Fourth, even the contributions that are attributed to Islam (often inaccurately) are not terribly dramatic. There is the 'invention' of certain words, such as alchemy and elixir (and assassin, by the way), but not much else that survives in modern technology which is of practical significance. Neither is there any reason to believe that such discoveries would not have easily been made by the West following the cultural awakening triggered by the Reformation.
As an example, consider that Muslims claim credit for coffee - in the sense that they popularized existing knowledge of Africans who were caught up in the Arab slave trade.
In fact, the litany of “Muslim” achievement often takes the form of rhapsody, in which the true origins of these discoveries are omitted - along with their comparative significance to Western achievement. One often doesn't hear about the dismal fate of original accomplishments either. Those who brag about the great observatory of Taqi al-Din in [freshly conquered] Istanbul, for example, often neglect to mention that it was quickly destroyed by the caliphate.
At the end of the day, the record of scientific, medical and technological accomplishment is not something over which Muslim apologists want to get into a contest with the Christian world. Today’s Islamic innovators are primarily known for turning Western technology, such as cell phones and airplanes, into instruments of mass murder.
To sum up, although the Islamic religion is not entirely hostile to science, neither should it be confused as a facilitator. The great achievements that are said to have come out of the Islamic world were made either by non-Muslims who happened to be under Islamic rule, or by heretics who usually had little interest in Islam. Scientific discovery tapers off dramatically as Islam asserts dominance, until it eventually peters out altogether.
Nineteen Wrote:And can you explain me how you can make a person muslim by force ?
Is a child who is born, grown up told to believe in Allah or be killed, not forced?
Is a people who are subjugated by rules and regulations excessively until they convert, not forced?
So if muslims had borrowed all the informations from other people , why you did not do that before muslims ? why you choose to learn from muslims ? So this cant be an excuse , Greece was more close to you , Egypt the same , North of Africa was under the rule of Roman empire . You have learned from muslims ? because muslims had invented or developed .
Please watch the videos if you want to learn about Islamic science .
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
