There are machines that can learn.
There are machines that can interact with people.

There are machines that can learn how to interact with people.
Given enough learning... enough "brain power", enough memory... I think these machines can achieve something which would be very difficult to distinguish from consciousness.
You guys remember the Xbox's project Natal, which later became known as kinect?

(December 23, 2013 at 5:29 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(December 23, 2013 at 4:48 pm)Rayaan Wrote: As a whole, I think that the level of complexity and self-referentiality that exists in the human mind is too deep and complicated to be accurately replicated in our artificial intelligence designs.

Do you say that as the current state of affairs, or do you think that brains are so complicated that we'll never figure out how to duplicate their capabilities?

I think it is both; we won't be able to accomplish this in the current state of affairs nor in the future. But, I'm not going to put a 100% guarantee on that either. I just think that it's very unlikely to happen. Maybe we would be able to replicate only some specific aspects of our mental processing (perhaps more efficiently even) here and there, but not the core consciousness that we possess.

That's the position that a theist must maintain in order to continue their position. Consciousness an immaterial product of the soul to them, and makes us unique. If we can replicate that, what else is there to cling to? Even if all the signs were there, I don't think theists would acknowledge it. It's to damning to their position.

(December 23, 2013 at 1:43 pm)Napoléon Wrote: I gotta say a big HELL NO to much of what you wrote to be honest.

Computers have no consciousness like human brains.

Check this out: http://scienceblogs.com/developingintell...like-a-co/

And this: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/curios...puters.htm


The way I see it computers are simply doing the tasks we have told them to do. They process information in a way in which we have designed them to. They do not 'think' like you suggest. ALL of their actions are performed via algorithms and commands that we have gave them in the first place. Until a computer system is able to start programming itself, and able to make its own decisions that are influenced by factors not distinguished by the programmer, then they don't really have any consciousness. They simply don't think for themselves.

The human mind is far more complex than any machine we have ever made. As good as computing is, it's still just a series of 0's and 1's.

I don't know. Every fucking time I get on an elevator and push a button the damned thing goes to the right floor. If it weren't conscious of which button I'd pushed, how could it do that? Freaky smart they are.

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But seriously, machines and programs do all kinds of tasks our brains can do. Disney even programed robot birds to act as if they are real. If they could fool an observer, then they must have bird consciousness, right?

You can program a machine to respond wittily so as to make an observer think it is being witty. You can program it to say things about caring if it survives and so on and so forth. But in the end, what would it take to program a computer so that it actually gave any amount of fuck about anything whatsoever. I don't think so.

If no one else has made this point, I will.

Your comparison of a digital computer and a human brain is not a good one.

A brain works nothing like a digital computer; our brains are not organized like digital computers.

The parallels people draw between minds and computers are facile but inaccurate. Computers have nowhere near the number of connections or states that a brain does.

So, no, your computer is not conscious.

Not yet, Chas....not yet. It's come toy attention that my OP leads one to think I am suggesting they currently do. I was saying things like "I "pretend" and "imagine", and entertaining superficial similarities and using those to drive the conversation toward speculation about future computers. The thing I want to discuss is the line that separates human intelligence from human created intelligence, and within the scope of speculation. Not under the assumption that it has been actualized. Sorry for the confusion.

(December 23, 2013 at 8:38 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: Not yet, Chas....not yet. It's come toy attention that my OP leads one to think I am suggesting they currently do. I was saying things like "I "pretend" and "imagine", and entertaining superficial similarities and using those to drive the conversation toward speculation about future computers. The thing I want to discuss is the line that separates human intelligence from human created intelligence, and within the scope of speculation. Not under the assumption that it has been actualized. Sorry for the confusion.

OK, I'll address that.

We'll need a much better understanding of consciousness before we can create it, or even judge what we create.

I'm curious then...Do you think I possess consciousness? If so, what criteria do you use to inform your decision?

(December 23, 2013 at 9:16 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: I'm curious then...Do you think I possess consciousness? If so, what criteria do you use to inform your decision?

Yes, I think you are probably human and are conscious, mostly because that is the likeliest explanation of your posts appearing here.

And when I say 'likeliest', I mean more probable by orders of magnitude than any other explanation.

Lol...indeed. The nature of your response was surprisingly focused upon the way I appear to you in the cyber-realm. I anticipated more of a physical justification of your assessment that lead you to assume I am human with a sense of consciousness. Of course, you are more acute with your assessment and do not. You start from the fact that the you have no way of knowing what is producing the posts, and justify your assumption of my consciousness with an assumption that I am human. I think I would do the same thing, given how I presented the question. However, the answer to the question I intended was perhaps more complicated than that. For that reason, forgive me for not making it more clear. In my question-" Do you think I possess consciousness?" Let us pretend that we are sitting face to face. Assuming you have every aesthetic and sensory reason to believe I am human, from what criteria within normal observation do you eliminate to possibility that what you are perceiving is the product of man-made intelligence?