(December 26, 2013 at 4:45 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Anthony Flew is not a good example for a number of reasons. He was known to be at decreased mental faculties, he was swayed by bad biological info and he did not become a theist, he became a deist.

My mistake, he was a deist. I think it would only be fair to deal with his arguments rather than speculate about his mental condition and what evidence he was swayed by. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with his arguments so I am useless in this conversation about Antony Flew. My only point was, though, that there are numerous examples of atheist to christian conversions..most notably in communist countries all over the world. It's not as rare as people seem to think.

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(December 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm)Tonus Wrote: Do you think it was possible for Jesus to sin? If so, what do you think would have happened had he done so? It's one of those scenarios that I find pretty interesting in that it helps understand how we see god as a person and concept.

It's an interesting question. Yes, I think it was possible for Him to sin in human weakness in the sense that it says he was tempted in every way, and suffered the same kind of afflictions. Tempted means he was being swayed to do it; it wouldn't have been a real temptation without the possibility I think. Satan tempted him to take the easy way out and assume control of the world right then and there; all He would have had to do was worship Satan and he could have avoided the cross.

If he had sinned then no one could be saved, I think; it would have also made God a liar since He promised a Savior. Yet, I don't think God would have sent His Son if He didn't know he was going to succeed and overcome every temptation. So, while it may have been possible, in a sense it wasn't because God already knew the future.

Dood answer my post about the capital G problem

Quote:I do understand that atheists will not accept a biblical explanation for much of anything. The thing is, I'm not sure which responses you're referring to. Looking them over, the only responses I've made quoting the bible was in reply to KSA, who made a theological argument to me from the scriptures. In that case I think it was entirely appropiate to use scripture in my response. Could you point out which reply it was in particular?

Makes sense. My apologies.

Quote:Well, they were experiences that touched my soul and transformed my inner being. They turned something on that was never there before in my experience. Therein lies the problem in that I liken it to describing sight to a blind man.

Try me. I was Christian before. More than to debate if the god exists or not, I ask these questions to come to terms with you converting and having been an atheist to begin with. I remember the way my mind worked as a Christian, and I know how it works now as an atheist. Try explaining what it was and I assure you I'm not blind. Perhaps I won't agree that it's sufficient reason to believe, but I will be able to see how it was that you came to believe.

Quote:However, I honestly did consider the various arguments that I have seen people mention thus far, that I was having a psychotic break or confirmation bias or what have you. I evaluated all of these experiences with a skeptical eye but their consistency and continuity with reality led me to believe that the weight of evidence was greater that these were real experiences and not something I was just imagining.

What were they?

Quote:I touched on this a bit in my testimony, and believe me, the last thing I'd ever thought I would be was a Christian. The initial revelation of a spiritual reality led me into the new age, and the exploration of the various religions led me, at the last, to read the bible. Because of certain revelation I had received before I read it, I came to the conclusion it was His book.

What was the revelation and how was it revealed?

So I guess what I'm looking for is what were those experiences and what was the revelation. I might see an explanation that you don't, but this could help in understand how you got to a belief system.

(December 26, 2013 at 4:32 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(December 26, 2013 at 7:24 am)agapelove Wrote: I am not problem free, but, I used to be depressed and now I am happy. I used to have a lot of fear and now I am at peace. I used to be addicted to many things and now I am sober.

Funny, when I ditched religion the same things happened for me.
I was a Christian for 13 years. Atheist/agnostic until age 20. New age from 20-33. Christian from 33-46. I do not necessarily consider myself an atheist at this point (my own set of supernatural experiences). I suspect you'll eventually outgrow the need for a religious system. It sounds like you're evolving - Christianity may just be a rest stop to help you gain perspective and clarity. My best thoughts will be with you as you continue exploring your spirituality, and if you decide to stop seeking now that you've found a messiah, I will rest in the peace that your path has been established. I bid you peace newcomer.

Thank you. Sounds like you have quite a story, friend. How did you end up coming back to Christianity again, and why did you leave? If it's too much to relate, I understand. The position I take on spiritual evolution is simple: Jesus is the pinnacle, and in submission to His Lordship, He will remake us in His image. It's not making ourselves better because you can't build a house out of rotten wood. It is a ladder that has lowered to us that we just need to hang on to but it won't carry the weight of our hubris.

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(December 26, 2013 at 5:01 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: reply

(December 26, 2013 at 5:38 pm)Ivy Wrote: reply

I will get back to you pineapplebunny and Ivy asap..I have to go right now for a little while. TTFN!

No answer about the G problem makes Ksa sad

Just went through this whole thread...
I saw a lot of somewhat common mental activity (described as "supernatural experiences" or something like that) that stacks up with other mental activities that have been described in the past, most notably, by the world's religion "makers".
Like ChadWooters said, you tend to adopt the religion that is most common around you, the one you're most acquainted with.
Chad had read about Swedenborg and saw some parallels between his mental activity and what the other guy had written.
Agape had some mental activity and, having nothing to latch on to, set out to seek it.... first with the rebel tween friends... then with the serious religion at hand... it fits, then it must be right.
Drich is also an ex-drug addict, married to a (ex?) drug addict... who had a dream... and then got lucky... very lucky in life... and attributed it to the religion at hand.

I see a pattern of things that happen in your mind and are then compared with what some people wrote a long time ago... and they somehow match.

Kind of like sleep paralysis patients tend to describe the same thing... even when they are not aware of what they are suffering from.

Add confirmation bias and you get a convert.

"Thank god for helping me find my keys"

(December 26, 2013 at 6:17 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Add confirmation bias and you get a convert.

Or even a "de-convert"

(December 26, 2013 at 6:24 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(December 26, 2013 at 6:17 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Add confirmation bias and you get a convert.

Or even a "de-convert"

Well.. yes... but the thread's "spirit" is to convert into something.

Gods seem to have an "Undetectable" property. My gods are twins and source of much joy! and quite detectable!