I second Lemons motion for action.

This:

did the trick.

I think we should stop now. I don't like pack attacks on people..even moderators. I think we have made our objections know and Rayaan seems to be a nice guy otherwise and I hope that if he does step down he will still want to be here and part of this community.

(December 31, 2013 at 5:32 am)missluckie26 Wrote: I second Lemons motion for action.

This:

---

(December 31, 2013 at 4:46 am)Rayaan Wrote:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-22974-po...#pid573381

---

did the trick.

Haters.

(December 30, 2013 at 2:00 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: to be fair I think fff is upset about being called a dick.

Fairness is an interesting thing to pop in there

I need to send you a troll beacon in the mail. So many lately... but none of them among the greats Alas...

---

(December 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm)missluckie26 Wrote:

(December 30, 2013 at 2:02 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: Upset, no. Disgusted, yes.

Well I didn't call you a dick. I said it was a dick thing to say. Because it was. I've since messaged you and posted in that forum and all you have done is thrown a hussy fit in this thread, which has enough drama atm. Your drama is what you make of it. You coulda just accepted reprimand from fellows for your behaviour--we even tried to hold n olive branch up to you-- but here we are. I don't hate you, I was merely identifying your immature behaviour. If you wish to talk about it some more, go to that thread.

Mmm, maybe she doesn't quite need a whole new signal, she just needs a booster.

* Violet gets to tinkering.

---

(December 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Wait, what? Now I'm even more confused... Too many dramas on this thread.

Only eight, it's not too bad yet

---

(December 30, 2013 at 2:19 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I personally consider this issue to be a very serious one - and that dismissing anyone's concerns as "whining" or the like is inappropriate and highly offensive. It's also my opinion that there are no small breaches of the privacy policy - they are all serious and should be treated as such. Furthermore, I can see that the staff as a whole has lost a great deal of credibility and trust that's going to have to be re-earned.

Done it before, they'll do it again Which part? All of it. To err is human.

---

(December 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Re-earn the trust of this heard of cats?!
You guys have a tall order on your hands...

It'll be forgotten within a week

---

(December 30, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Rayaan, it's good you have stepped up to apologize, but to be frank I think your staff privileges should be revoked as we have no way of knowing if have done this to others or that you won't do it again

Much of it could be done by any member (and even nonmembers), actually. Sure, IP helps... but it's unnecessary in most cases.

If your email or forum name is your very real name, and/or you have sufficient further presence online such to provide the necessary information, and/or you share your email name with your facebook: very personal details might well be gleaned of your life.

It's likely he's investigated others, but it is also likely that he won't do it to such an extent (without good reason) again. People learn as they live, whether he drops as admin is up to the staff and himself (not a democracy, nor a republic, yknow?).

(December 31, 2013 at 5:43 am)Rayaan Wrote: Haters.

So, like, remember when I quietly suggested to you that we all take a step back from this until we knew what we were going to do, because posting like this was only going to make things worse? This was why.

(December 31, 2013 at 12:07 am)Rayaan Wrote:

Privacy Policy Wrote:It takes a lot of work to keep our site running and prevent abuse, and we sometimes use your data in order to facilitate this. Your information is used internally only where necessary. For instance, we keep IP addresses of all traffic for 90 days in order to investigate issues with our site, track and block suspected spammers, and otherwise maintain the integrity of the community. We keep post and shout IP data indefinitely due to limitations with the MyBB software, and because it makes it easier for us to identify sock accounts.

2. In this case, however, I'll admit that it was not actually necessary to search you outside of this forum, but I did have some suspicions of you and that's why searched you in other forums/websites. This is also valid reason to search members. I did this for an internal staff reason, and it was also because I was curious to see whether or not my suspicions of you were correct.

3. I had suspicions of you for a reason, which doesn't need to be discussed in the public arena at this time although the staff is aware of my reasons (and they even agreed that I had an acceptable reason to search/investigate you outside of this forum). I have proof of all of this in a report thread, which I and the staff members have been discussing.

(bold and italics added by me)

I'm confused. The privacy policy says used only when necessary. It stands to reason that a good enough reason to search up someone like that, using registration information or whatever it was, would be when it is necessary. You admitted that it wasn't necessary, so that violates the policy. But then you go on to say that having suspicions is a good enough reason. Which is it?

Investigating users based on suspicions is just a normal part of running a forum, IMO. I think the issue here is that it wasn't done discreetly, as Rayaan has admitted to. I have no problem with waiting out the process and seeing how everything shakes out before I make any decisions about it (though it would have to be a pretty bizarre outcome for me to care enough to leave).

@Esquilax: Yes, exactly. I've kept quiet in open thread up to now on this, opting to focus my discussion with my Staff colleagues just as Tiberius and indeed all of us on the operational side have requested. All productive comments and opinions are helpful, however the reason I am breaking radio silence now is simply to observe that remarks such as these:

(December 31, 2013 at 2:15 am)là bạn điên Wrote: I wonder if the mods will act like most other forum mods would do, ie whitewash the process and take no further action? Frankly Rayaan's comments of late have shown that he still thinks that it is an over reaction, that he though it was amusing that 'so little' could upset someone and now this

Quote:that is not the view of the staff team and I'm pretty confident that they know my reasons for doing this better than you do. Smile

Shows that the message has not really sunk in, reinforces perceptions of mods 'protecting their own' and creates a very unpleasant 'them and us' situation.

Frankly a simple resignation would save face all round followed by an open statement of rules of mod behavior.

can hardly be considered constructive. As a statement of concern it's perfectly valid, but in the context of what we're trying to achieve at this stage such comments serve merely to fan the flames of a drama that, quite frankly, has been blown up into News Of The World proportions. (Non-UK residents feel free to substitute Fox News there.)

As for what happens concerning our colleague, should he choose to step down or leave altogether or whatever else is decided, simply baying for his head isn't likely to change that decision or indeed do anything other than foster the feeling of ill-will and mistrust already in the air. Speaking personally I've never taken kindly to having my hand forced based on an opinion of what I should do over what may be right to do.

And with that said, I don't anticipate commenting further on this matter until at least its resolution.

It wasn't actually necessary for him to tell the member that he knew about his presence on another website, it may have been actually 'necessary'* that the administrator investigated the member on other websites. The latter is done with anyone who raises sufficient flags such to spark an investigation (being subjective to the case and time), the former† was quite unnecessary... however, I will also note that it was an invitation Only 'crimes' were in informing the member in question, posting PMs without receiving approval from the other PM recipient (albeit, we can't know that they did, or did not, approve... but the staff can).

(*in the same vein as airport security may or may not be 'necessary')
†I will take this time to note that even I could do it without even being a member of this forum, from the information that the information provided was true/correct (giving me a reason to trust information that I otherwise wouldn't care to investigate).
Caveat: he could have also told the member that he knew who he was on another website, and then given a non-staff version of how he did it... but really, telling people that you 'know who they are' and/or that you know where they live/etc rarely accomplishes anything that can be considered a good thing.

Maybe I didn't explain well enough... I'm sleepy, I'm going to go to bed. Not my problem, but hey: I apologize if I got anything wrong.

---

(December 31, 2013 at 7:23 am)Tonus Wrote: Investigating users based on suspicions is just a normal part of running a forum, IMO. I think the issue here is that it wasn't done discreetly, as Rayaan has admitted to. I have no problem with waiting out the process and seeing how everything shakes out before I make any decisions about it (though it would have to be a pretty bizarre outcome for me to care enough to leave).

It can be unexpected, at a really bad time in your life, and anger may be involved.

(December 31, 2013 at 6:27 am)Violet Lilly Blossom Wrote:

(December 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Re-earn the trust of this heard of cats?!
You guys have a tall order on your hands...

It'll be forgotten within a week

I wish...