(January 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I sometimes have doubts but I feel that when I see the world so broken that perhaps humans are corrupted.

Or perhaps this all powerful all loving god fucked up somewhere. OR maybe, juuuust maybe, there is no god.

I don't do worship. Even hero worship is abhorant to me. Worship as in self abnegation in the service of a deity? No way. Any being looking for that is obviously beneath me.

I am reallynot trying to convince anyone to convert. I just want to know what atheist think and would do. I did not grow up around any so I am curious.

(January 8, 2014 at 8:15 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I don't want anybody to go to the hell, but while I don't fully understand why people must suffer for eternity I accept that God' s morality is on a level that we mere humans can't fully understand.

That is on the same level as the good Germans who helped do in the Jews under the Nazis. Once you've decided who to abandon personal responsibility to, whatever that one orders must be right and be obeyed.

(January 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I sometimes have doubts but I feel that when I see the world so broken that perhaps humans are corrupted. The world could be better if people followed Jesus's example and thought about how Christ loved them so much that they do not have to burn in hell because of his sacrifice.

Your not helping your case at all.

So, why couldn't 'God' just forgive humanity for 'original sin' without a blood sacrifice? After all, it's his universe, his rules.

Wouldn't that be the moral thing to do?

But instead, the story we're supposed to swallow is that, Yahweh magically impregnated a 14 year old girl in order to give birth to himself, so he could then sacrifice himself to himself in order to forgive mankind.

Seriously...

Clearly, if the god of the bible was shown beyond all doubt to exist, I and most other atheists worthy of the name would have no choice but to accept that existence. There would still remain an incredible gulf between that and worshipping it, certainly the likelihood of my doing so would fall inversely to the entity's demands that I must. I reserve my worship solely for those I cannot bear to live without; an exclusive club indeed. It is most certainly not handed over to any tinpot dictator-cum-abusive father who delights in sub-childish power games, makes knowingly-impossible demands and needs a technicolour post-it note in the sky to remind itself not to destroy the world.

It's rather arcane and more than a little geeky, but this quote from a certain BBC sci-fi drama sums it up for me: "You want to live like slaves, live or die at the whim of a madman, then fine. But you're not taking me down with you!"

(January 8, 2014 at 9:02 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(January 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I sometimes have doubts but I feel that when I see the world so broken that perhaps humans are corrupted. The world could be better if people followed Jesus's example and thought about how Christ loved them so much that they do not have to burn in hell because of his sacrifice.

Your not helping your case at all.

So, why couldn't 'God' just forgive humanity for 'original sin' without a blood sacrifice? After all, it's his universe, his rules.

Wouldn't that be the moral thing to do?

But instead, the story we're supposed to swallow is that, Yahweh magically impregnated a 14 year old girl in order to give birth to himself, so he could then sacrifice himself to himself in order to forgive mankind.

Seriously...

I am sure God wanted to show the depth of hi love by sacrificing what mattered most to him. His son Jesus died on the cross as a show of love for humanity. We may not deserve his forgiving love but that just show how compassionate God is.

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(January 8, 2014 at 9:02 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Clearly, if the god of the bible was shown beyond all doubt to exist, I and most other atheists worthy of the name would have no choice but to accept that existence. There would still remain an incredible gulf between that and worshipping it, certainly the likelihood of my doing so would fall inversely to the entity's demands that I must. I reserve my worship solely for those I cannot bear to live without; an exclusive club indeed. It is most certainly not handed over to any tinpot dictator-cum-abusive father who delights in sub-childish power games, makes knowingly-impossible demands and needs a technicolour post-it note in the sky to remind itself not to destroy the world.

It's rather arcane and more than a little geeky, but this quote from a certain BBC sci-fi drama sums it up for me: "You want to live like slaves, live or die at the whim of a madman, then fine. But you're not taking me down with you!"

Aren't people slaves to what they believe in and desire anyway. Humans are naturally vindictive and need faith to curtail our evil and so often very selfish desires. People would rather entertain themselves and give money to what amuses and pleases them than help those who are in pain or innocent children dying in third world countries. This corrupt sinful world needs Christ as an example of how to be charitable and loving. Without Jesus we are slaves to a different set of masters whether they be selfish desires or ideas and other beliefs we may hold. Humanity is rotten and needs Jesus.

(January 8, 2014 at 8:52 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I am reallynot trying to convince anyone to convert. I just want to know what atheist think and would do. I did not grow up around any so I am curious.

THIS atheist knows evil when he sees it - and much like I would not kneel before a human tyrant, nor would I kneel to the divine.

I'm funny that way.

Sinners burn in hell? Perhaps, but won't you be surprised when you find out a moment too late that Christians are burnt as fuel for the flame.

No, would I bow down to to a tyrant who is jealous, sadistic, cruel and clearly shows all the signs of a mental imbecile & psychopath? Why would I bend my knee for such a deity, because (provided Christianity were proven true) eternal freedom awaits me in Hell? I'll take my chances that Hell isn't as bad as the Christians claim it is. Anything would be better than to bow in submission to a creator who created man sick only to order him to be well. I would rather suffer than live in what can only be described as a divine North Korea.