(February 27, 2010 at 4:27 pm)Samson Wrote: Are you that thick? Funny how a little look up on Taoism and the first sentence you read is: Much of the thrust of Taoism, as we have seen, naturally motivates a reaction against the moralistic and elitist inclinations of Confucianism.
Yes, the Tao "Movement" throughout Asia has been said on many occasions to be a threat to the Buddhist and Confucianism traditions etc.

You still worded it very poorly the first time, but okay.

Quote:Rabbi, if the shoe fits, or as said before, if it walks and quacks like a duck, it must be a fucking duck, or like most nutt jobs, they would yell cat or dog first......

I'm no Rabbi.

Quote:Jainism

Quote:are you serious? Jainism is related to Hinduism, but they're not the same thing.

Are you really that naive?? They are related in the since of how you fucking idiots are related with Christian, Judean and Islam....You three can bitch and moan on your perfection and originality all day long, but when you look a little closer, you find a lot of the same old shit...With the few differences that separated you in the first place...

Calm down mate. You essentially called Jainism and Hinduism the same thing - they're not, though they are related as I said. Going on an anti-theistic tirade hardly proves anything.

Quote:Shintoism

Quote:Seriously man, don't talk about things you have no understanding of. My brain nearly exploded when you called Shintoism a breakoff of Buddhism and Confucianism. Are you kidding me?

You really are a fucking idiot.... Look up Shinto jackass... One of the first things you will see is this quote:

Quote:Shintoists generally follow the code of Confucianism.

Back at you... "Don't talk about things you don't understand".....

Shinto came before Taoism, and both appeared in different countries. Same with Buddhism. It is in no way a breakoff of either.

Edit: Whoops, I mean Shinto came before Confucianism.

Quote:And again, Wiccans which of course are a branch of Neo-pagan, just as Hindu's and Buddhists etc. etc. etc. I was only making a comparison, not saying they are from the same region or were the same exactly....

You really have no idea what Neo-pagan means.

PROTIP: Hinduism and Buddhism are in no way Neo-pagan.

Alex, I'd refer you to post #228. I do agree with many of your points though, you seem like a pretty astute observer.

Thanks.

(February 27, 2010 at 4:25 pm)tavarish Wrote: ^You DO understand that it's was God's plan for all those doctors to return you to a clean bill of health? It's pretty simple, man. The fact you survived means one thing:

Build an ark. A big one.

What does the story of Noah's Ark have to do with what I said about atheism? Stop being a Bible literlaist and actually try to fucking understand the damn thing. Otherwise it's not worth trying to have a discussion with you on the subject.

Quote:In all seriousness, I find it funny that people like Watson can't see anyone not believing in what he believes in.

I never said I can't see people not believing in what I believe in. There are plenty of people who don't believe what I believe in, but Ill tell you one thing; we all believe in reality, and we all try to describe it and explain the phenomena known as reality. Pick your choice of words, your petty labels, your 'logical arguments.' You still can't get away from the fact that we're bot htrying to explain the same thing.

Quote:I'm pretty sure at this point the lock that he used to close his mind is rusty and he has long since lost the key.

Everything that comes from him lately is pure confirmation bias and rationalization.

And I'm pretty sure that until about a month and a half ago, I considered myself an atheist. But, you know, you go on and keep telling yourself I'm the close-minded one. That's your decision, not mine.

(February 27, 2010 at 9:06 pm)Alex Wrote: You still worded it very poorly the first time, but okay.

Really? I'm sorry, but you can not make it any more blunt than stating the "Tao" movement is looked at as a threat to Buddhism/Confucianism across Asia... That's now the 3rd time Alex...TAO IS VIEWED AS A TYPE OF THREAT TO THE B & C ACROSS ASIA... I can't make it anymore elementary for you...

Quote:I'm not rabbi

Was being centical, no more, no less...If you took it as an offense, I apologize...

Quote:Calm down mate. You essentially called Jainism and Hinduism the same thing - they're not, though they are related as I said. Going on an anti-theistic tirade hardly proves anything.

I'm calm mate, but you stating they are no where near the same is like stating a "Protestant & a Catholic" have no relations what so ever...

Quote:Edit: Whoops, I mean Shinto came before Confucianism.

Ummm....No.....There is NO proof of this, and has been a debate for a very long time now....Confucianism has been considered older, but then you have the Hindu religion trumping them both....

Quote:You really have no idea what Neo-pagan means.
PROTIP: Hinduism and Buddhism are in no way Neo-pagan.

Just by you stating that "Hindusim and Buddhism are "NOT" Neo-Pagan beliefs, you have lost all creditability of anything you comment on, on these forums.....

Buddhism, Hinduism, Wiccan, etc. are amongst the "MANY" that are defined as "Neo-Pagan"....For fuck sake, Buddhism and Hinduism are like the poster child for the term...."New" "Pagan"..... Just look it up, call someone, ...lol...

P.S. Half my fucking family is Wiccan and Buddhist....The other half is Muslim (From Lebanon)......My eyes are already bleeding from your bullshit....

(February 23, 2010 at 5:20 pm)Thomas Wrote: I guess if you weren't interested in finding something more than just what is right in front of you then you could smile for a while. Religion is meant to be a way to guide people to happiness. No doubt it is used on a daily basis to make money and control the masses. If you had actually bothered to read, you would have noticed I agree with that... and a lot more.

Its okay, though, I didn't really post it for you hardcore "lalalala I'm not listening" types... Its for those people who come looking for real answers and only get hostility... they'll see that there is someone there who actually sees both sides, but is still a God-fearing man.

God fearing man.

I think this phrase gives a powerfull insight into the theist mind and is at the crux of the beliefs like those displayed by Alex, Frodo and Watson.

Their beliefs come down in the end to fear.

They think that the soul (whatever that is) somehow survives after you die and is either rewarded or punished in some way, (the details seem to vary quite wildly).

Its is an ancient and out moded form of thinking that should have been discarded long ago.

^No. Just no. I loathe the term 'God fearing man', donwbeatplumb. Don't try to generalize what I believe or lump me together with other beleif systems. My beliefs are my own, pure, plain and simple.

You say that I believe the soul will live on after death and be rewarded or punished, and this is true. But you assume I think God is the one doing the punishing or rewardng, and that is not so. I don't assume He's doing anything of the sort, I believe you(as in the person going to Heaven or Hell) is the person responsible for the punishment and/or reward.

(February 28, 2010 at 9:55 am)Watson Wrote: I believe you(as in the person going to Heaven or Hell) is the person responsible for the punishment and/or reward.

That's not a very nice system is it? I wonder who is ultimately responsible for that?

What? Holding yourself accountable for your own actions and decisions is a bad thing? Where do you live?

(February 28, 2010 at 1:28 am)Watson Wrote: [quote='Watson' pid='58081' dateline='1267334901']
What does the story of Noah's Ark have to do with what I said about atheism? Stop being a Bible literlaist and actually try to fucking understand the damn thing. Otherwise it's not worth trying to have a discussion with you on the subject.

Jokes apparently don't make it past that steel beartrap of an intellect you possess. Good job, buddy. High five.

(February 28, 2010 at 1:28 am)Watson Wrote: I never said I can't see people not believing in what I believe in. There are plenty of people who don't believe what I believe in, but Ill tell you one thing; we all believe in reality, and we all try to describe it and explain the phenomena known as reality. Pick your choice of words, your petty labels, your 'logical arguments.' You still can't get away from the fact that we're bot htrying to explain the same thing.

Some of us like to describe things in reality with concepts that are demonstrable in reality. Falsifiability and verifiability are what separate fact from fantasy and the real from unreal. You said that atheism somehow doesn't exist, then say we're trying to explain the same thing. I don't make any claims as to where the universe originated, or if it even needed a creator. YOU make that claim. I reject it. I'm not trying to explain anything, especially not with something that can't be proven or disproven.

(February 28, 2010 at 1:28 am)Watson Wrote: And I'm pretty sure that until about a month and a half ago, I considered myself an atheist. But, you know, you go on and keep telling yourself I'm the close-minded one. That's your decision, not mine.

I don't care if you had a sex change a month and a half ago, it doesn't make your arguments any more valid. It's not like being a non-believer has some kind of quality that reflects us all. Some people are just more susceptible to believing some wild shit.

(February 28, 2010 at 11:18 am)tavarish Wrote: Jokes apparently don't make it past that steel beartrap of an intellect you possess. Good job, buddy. High five.

I got that it was a joke, it just wasn't very funny, dude.

Quote:

(February 28, 2010 at 1:28 am)Watson Wrote: I never said I can't see people not believing in what I believe in. There are plenty of people who don't believe what I believe in, but Ill tell you one thing; we all believe in reality, and we all try to describe it and explain the phenomena known as reality. Pick your choice of words, your petty labels, your 'logical arguments.' You still can't get away from the fact that we're bot htrying to explain the same thing.

Some of us like to describe things in reality with concepts that are demonstrable in reality. Falsifiability and verifiability are what separate fact from fantasy and the real from unreal.

You can't demonstrate anything to me that I can't refute you for saying without belief. I think George Orwell put it best:
"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside yur skull"
Nothing, and I mean nothing, can be proven to be true outside of your own perception of it, unless you believe and trust in it's existence as an external reality.

Quote:You said that atheism somehow doesn't exist, then say we're trying to explain the same thing.

Shit happens to an atheist= explains it as a series of coincidences.
Shit happens to a believer= a higher power with a goal in mind took a guiding role in that shit that just happened.
It's really very simple, tavarish. You're describing the same reality I am, but as I said, at least I believe in reality. You have to have it proven to you. It must be so easy to only accept what can be handed to you on a silver platter and not believe in anything outside of that platter because it's too 'hard'.

Quote:I don't make any claims as to where the universe originated, or if it even needed a creator. YOU make that claim. I reject it.

Where...the universe originated? I don't understand, there's apparently a specific place where the universe originated? Oh, that must be another one of your 'jokes.' What I'm suggesting is that the universe has a goal, and that that goal is accomplished with a God in existence. That's my claim. I'm sure you don't know or comprehend that goal, either. You reject it, afterall.

Quote:I'm not trying to explain anything, especially not with something that can't be proven or disproven.

No, you're just trying to explain away something which can be proven to the strong of faith and which, if believed in, evidences itself everywhere.

Imagine that these are finger:
I I I I
How many am I holding up, tavarish? I'll give you a hint: The Party says five. Good luck.

Quote:

(February 28, 2010 at 1:28 am)Watson Wrote: And I'm pretty sure that until about a month and a half ago, I considered myself an atheist. But, you know, you go on and keep telling yourself I'm the close-minded one. That's your decision, not mine.

I don't care if you had a sex change a month and a half ago, it doesn't make your arguments any more valid. It's not like being a non-believer has some kind of quality that reflects us all. Some people are just more susceptible to believing some wild shit.

No, the point I was getting across was about what you said pertaining to 'the key I used to close up my mind is old and rusty by now." Remember your own words, tavarish, I'm not going to remember them for you.