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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 1:01 pm
Why 100%?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 1:22 pm
(January 27, 2014 at 12:55 pm)MitchBenn Wrote: (January 27, 2014 at 12:49 pm)KUSA Wrote: Your stupidity I guess.
Smooth.
Ok, try this. Suppose all the above happened and the evidence pointed to you having done it.
Still in favour?
That would be a fault of the system. Not the death penalty itsself. If I was framed, I'd be angry that the system failed. Not that the death penalty exists.
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 1:25 pm
Good point.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 2:11 pm
I'd sooner support life sentence instead of death penalty.
It has been made abundantly clear that the death penalty does not deter certain individuals from carrying out those despicable actions. It then does not work as a deterrent.... it most certainly is not a punishment as the punished party will not live to learn from said punishment.
At most, it is the elimination of an individual from society.
Life in prison does that, too.... and prevents any faulty system from killing an innocent person.
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 2:38 pm
(January 27, 2014 at 12:10 pm)KUSA Wrote: (January 27, 2014 at 7:57 am)MitchBenn Wrote: 100% opposed to the death penalty in any and all circumstances.
What if someone brutally raped and murdered your children (or other loved one) and made you watch? Also they eviscerated them and made you wear there internal organs on your body. And they cut their genitals off and forced you to eat them. After that they cut the head off and skull fucked them. Lastly they took the impregnated brain matter and fried it up for supper and made you eat some.
What about then?
Probably be too busy ralfing up things I never even ate to care about avenging myself.
But, no. As creative as that was, you'll never come up with a scenario that would change my mind on this.
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 3:11 pm
(January 27, 2014 at 12:10 pm)KUSA Wrote: What if someone brutally raped and murdered your children (or other loved one) and made you watch? Also they eviscerated them and made you wear there internal organs on your body. And they cut their genitals off and forced you to eat them. After that they cut the head off and skull fucked them. Lastly they took the impregnated brain matter and fried it up for supper and made you eat some.
What about then?
Here's the problem with your reasoning: You're assuming the viciousness of the act is the basis and reason for carrying out a sentence of death. Eye for an eye, so to speak. It's not.
There is no 100% certainty that you've got the right person. In fact, we get it wrong one-sixth of the time. That's right -- statistics show that out of every six folks executed for their crimes, one of them was innocent. Is that an acceptable level of "collateral damage" to you? Even one in one hundred? Not to me. Not one, not ever. And if it is to you, then we'll let you be the one to go explain that to the wrongfully-executed person's family about that. Oh, and the jurors who wrongfully convicted, too. All of those folks will be changed and haunted for a lifetime over that "collateral damage."
Ahhh, yes, but what about those wonderful forensics? What about that DNA evidence? Sorry, but that's a myth perpetrated by too many crime shows on the tee vee. In reality, DNA evidence is not nearly as common or available as people think. It is easily tainted. It is often simply unavailable. Since most heinous acts such as murder generally happen in private, there are almost always only two people who know what really happened -- and one of them is dead. So... what's "iron-clad" evidence to you?
Eye witness testimony? Nothing more unreliable in the world.
Circumstantial evidence? In a court of law, it is considered as persuasive as direct evidence.
A confession? I've seen more than one of those that were false.
And anyway, doesn't the position of 100% certainty basically only assure that the dumb ones get put to death? If a horrible, calculating SMART murderer comes along and manages to dodge certainty, it's ok for him to "enjoy" life in prison, but the stupid one who left some sperm behind gets the needle? I'm still working out the justice on this one...
Now do you understand the flaws in your reasoning?
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Am I invisible or something?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:15 pm
No to the death penalty, even in cases of genocide and the likes of Myra Hindley and the bloke she did it with.
Kinda tempting to have all politicians hung drawn and quartered on principle, but that's another question
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Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:18 pm
All I want to know is why MitchBenn opposes the death penalty 100%! Is that too much to ask? Cause I have, about 3 times now! Someone respond, i'm afraid i've died and now i'm a ghost, haunting the system, unable to make contact with the living!
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:22 pm
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2014 at 4:23 pm by Tonus.)
(January 26, 2014 at 10:27 pm)blue dee Wrote: would all us atheist not agree that life is a very quick death sentence I guess you never stood in line behind someone paying for groceries with a personal check.
(January 27, 2014 at 12:10 pm)KUSA Wrote: (January 27, 2014 at 7:57 am)MitchBenn Wrote: 100% opposed to the death penalty in any and all circumstances. What if someone brutally raped and murdered your children (or other loved one) and made you watch? You are asking him to make an emotional decision in that case. I think emotional decisions are usually very poorly thought out and not indicative of what we would normally decide if we got the time to think a situation through.
If someone had done what you describe to my family, I would probably want to apply the death penalty myself to both him and anyone he cared about, just to try to make him suffer as much as I was suffering. Somehow, I don't think a rational person would agree to making that the standard punishment for the crimes of rape and murder. Emotional solutions lack balance, IMO.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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