I was really young, maybe 18, and I was working in a restaurant where the short order cook was known for being a pervert to all of the girls who worked there. He touched us inappropriately and talked dirty to us. The manager knew what was up, but the cook was really good at his job, so didn't do anything about it. Honestly, I think he was enjoying it too. He had to do something after I threatened to call the cops and fired the dude.

You know what was worse than the time the cook grabbed my boob? After being fired, he passed behind me, and whispered hot and wet into my ear: "watch it, little girl. You'd better have your mom pick you up from now on. If you walk home, I'll rape you every night."

I was so chilled by it, and was shaking so hard for the next hour, I spilled on four customers, and my manager sent me home. Wanna guess what else happened? Yup. My mother picked me up from work every night from then on.

That example illustrates just ONE of the reasons there are sexual harassment laws. I mean, what, should I thank the guy for warning me before raping me?

...aaaaand that was my point. Thanks for sharing, Rex.

No. Sexism ia as awful as homophobia. Feminism is the name of the movement that addresses the historic power disparity between the sexes that oppresses women. Using "feminazi" is just a glib attempt to sweep all that under the rug and maintain the status quo.

(January 29, 2014 at 11:13 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: I was really young, maybe 18, and I was working in a restaurant where the short order cook was known for being a pervert to all of the girls who worked there. He touched us inappropriately and talked dirty to us. The manager knew what was up, but the cook was really good at his job, so didn't do anything about it. Honestly, I think he was enjoying it too. He had to do something after I threatened to call the cops and fired the dude.

You know what was worse than the time the cook grabbed my boob? After being fired, he passed behind me, and whispered hot and wet into my ear: "watch it, little girl. You'd better have your mom pick you up from now on. If you walk home, I'll rape you every night."

I was so chilled by it, and was shaking so hard for the next hour, I spilled on four customers, and my manager sent me home. Wanna guess what else happened? Yup. My mother picked me up from work every night from then on.

That example illustrates just ONE of the reasons there are sexual harassment laws. I mean, what, should I thank the guy for warning me before raping me?

But according to Ego you should have been more open to being harassed.

Thanks for sharing. No one - man or woman - should have to tolerate that shit.

I think Ego reads about some "new" idea, and gloms onto it before thinking it through, but he's a stereotypical stubborn teenager, so he goes along with it until the discussion dies down or his attention is directed at some other "new" concept.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was a thirty-year-old trying to pull off the teenager version of Poe's Law.

I guess we all have to go wrong many times before we ever get to go right. Lets let him season a while and hope for a good vintage.

My brother was the same way. He would listen to some guy on the internet and repeat everything with passion. Some new guy would share something new and he would move on. Good thing he grew out of it.

Ego, it's ok to discuss different views, but when you become insulting you make it difficult to take you seriously. I certainly hope you don't get yourself banned too quick.

Of course I'm going to partially side with the unpopular position here, and try to cut through some of the bullshit Ego is talking about too.

If I'm getting what Ego is talking about correctly (past the anti-feminism stuff), I'm pretty sure what he's trying to convey is a more sexually liberal country. Saying sexual things to strangers is considered offensive because sex is thought to be very private and personal. The point being that it shouldn't be considered so. We keep it a secret that we fuck, yet everyone knows everyone else is fucking. Sex is humanity's worst kept secret. In this sexually open society one should be able to say "Nice tits" and garner the same emotional reaction as if someone said "Nice elbow." Following the path logically if you should be able to say "Nice tits" and it's received the same as "Nice elbow," then touching someone's tits (or dick or whatever) should also receive the same response as touching someone's elbow. The premise for this whole thing though, requires that sex in general has the same amount of importance as a handshake. Kind of a completely uninhibited free love movement.

The sexphobia he is talking about is somewhat true in the sense that even though sex is as natural a human function as eating, it is done behind closed doors. All because of the idea that the skin on my dick is more special than the skin on my fingers. However, this problem has existed longer before feminism arrived and it is perpetuated by men as much as it is by women.

(January 29, 2014 at 11:59 pm)FlyingNarwhal Wrote: Saying sexual things to strangers is considered offensive because sex is thought to be very private and personal. The point being that it shouldn't be considered so. We keep it a secret that we fuck, yet everyone knows everyone else is fucking. Sex is humanity's worst kept secret. In this sexually open society one should be able to say "Nice tits" and garner the same emotional reaction as if someone said "Nice elbow." Following the path logically if you should be able to say "Nice tits" and it's received the same as "Nice elbow," then touching someone's tits (or dick or whatever) should also receive the same response as touching someone's elbow. The premise for this whole thing though, requires that sex in general has the same amount of importance as a handshake. Kind of a completely uninhibited free love movement.

For what reason is bringing about this state of affairs desirable, especially if it makes things like what happened to becca easier to defend?

And why does Egoraptor seem to think Feminists are the only obstacle standing in the way, which is what it seems?

(Although it's hard to tell, when he asserts that being called on his inability to document his claim an ad hominem attack, it's hard to know if he's just spewing or has a point.)

He's full of shit. Mostly in the brain pan.

As for OP


And as for my, personal feelings on feminism....

I think most of what passes for feminism on the internet, especially in certain atheist spaces, is shit *cough*RebeccaWatson*cough*.

Specifically, I've had experiences that aren't exactly like they like to talk about. Specifically, I'm a trans woman who had children before transitioning and the state still considers me male. I don't know when, if or how I'm going to see my children again. Also, because of the states' aggressive child support policies, I spent a lot of time literally homeless. While homeless, I watched while there were several housing programs specifically for women that I didn't qualify for and shelters specifically for women which, again, wouldn't accept me. Specifically, most of the experiences I've had with blatant gender discrimination were experiences that predominantly effect men.... and attempting to talk about those experiences in those feminist spaces is met with nothing but hostility.

That being said, there certainly is good feminism. Feminism can be empowering and it can encourage women and it can fight for womens rights. Wendy Davis, filibustering literally all day to preserve womens right to choose in Texas, that's good feminism. Hillary Clinton, who is a likely candidate to be the next president of the USA, calling a reporter on it when he asked about her fashion choices, that's good feminism. If you want to go pop culture, ok, Katness from The Hunger Games is an example of the kind of feminism I like: she's tough and resourceful and doesn't just sit there, trying to play the victim card on herself without attempting to fix things (and often fixes things without having to play some big pity party). We need more strong, tough women like that. What we don't need is a bunch of shrill bitches shutting down a speaking event in Toronto because they don't like the speaker or a guy getting fired because a woman over hears him making a joke to someone else that may be sexual.