(January 30, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Drich Wrote: One of the most profound examples of this was a preacher/ministry was teaching apart of a long series in the OT, and that day i asked God a question and the message that was aired directly spoke to my problem. It has nothing to do with the series they were on, and the next day they said the message was mislabled.. I know what a coincidence is. coincidence is a one or two time thing. i get 5 to 10 of these things aday.

Did you compare that to the number of times you were thinking of a problem and didn't receive an answer?

No you didn't. Because you're not smart enough to realize that counting the hits alone is a worthless procedure. That's confirmation bias, and you're showing exactly why it's not reliable.

You've counted the hits, but you didn't count the misses; that means you skewed the results to the positive, not because they in fact are positive, but purely as a side effect of your method of counting.

That's confirmation bias. The God isn't in the "coincidences." The God is in the person who isn't smart enough to count both the hits and misses, which is you.

You created the effect of impressive hits by only counting the hits. You created your own God out of the nothing of random events.

(This is also a form of apophenia, of seeing meaningful patterns where none is present. People who are schizotypal, one trait of which is being fantasy prone, are uniquely vulnerable to this phenomena. So someone who is fantasy prone will likely see these "connections" more readily than one who is not. But note the important point here that nothing in the person's life is different, there are just as many patterns to be seen in the schizotypal person's world as in the world of others; the difference is in the person themselves being prone to make this mistake more readily. So, if one applies this to you, it isn't that an unusual presence of God is causing more of these events in your life, it's not; the difference is in your mind's "readiness" to see what isn't there. On a personal note, when I'm hypomanic my mind is in a sense "smarter" and I am able to see connections between things that I ordinarily wouldn't see. I can create puns and word play involving these connections that I normally would not. Is this a sign that God is more present during my hypomania, or that my mind sees more patterns when I'm hypomanic? Surely even you can understand that the difference which causes me to see more patterns during hypomania is all in me, not in the patterns themselves. Do you believe something special is happening "in the world" that I am able to see more patterns when hypomanic? Tell me you're not dumb enough to think that?)

(January 30, 2014 at 1:39 pm)rasetsu Wrote: The point was that you don't know well enough what's in the mind of God to know what he meant specifically by the Tyre prophecy. If you're conceding the point, you're conceding there is no defense of the Tyre prophecy along the lines you drew and therefore it is in fact failed prophecy.

Holy Crap, Finally! I thought you'd never get to a tangiable point. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but God did not make the prophesy. That kinda means your whole arguement (about me not knowing the mind of God) pointless. Why? Because one does not need to know the Mind of God to align the words of a prophet (the only one required to know the mind of God in this whole process) to recorded History.

Quote:I'm glad you concede that you follow a false god, but it's rather apparent the only reason you concede is because you can't keep up with a simple point.

Do you understand why your defense of the Tyre prophecy doesn't work now? Have you got it yet?


And this applies to your whole ministry. Do you really not care that everything you've argued is not defensible? I doubt that.

... and if the mind of God is not needed to look at a prophesy and look at History and highlight the events mentioned? Maybe you have an insight i don't, but to me your whole arguement hinges on the mind of God thing youve been trying to harp one. When I take that from you the rest of your mess kinda falls flat on it's face.

(January 30, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Drich Wrote: and you can not except that you don't have to 'just believe.' I have said over and over that all it takes is the faith of a mustard seed meaning all you need is to have enough faith to ask God for help in this area.

I don't have the faith of a mustard seed. Now what?

Quote:You can put whatever name you like on it, but the fact of the matter your life will begin to change independantly from any influences that you may have on it. all of which point to God.

Whether or not it can change my life has no bearing on whether or not there's any truth behind it. The power one's beliefs have over them is very powerful.

Quote:Actually A/S/K is the only method we have of obtaining a measure of the Holy Spirit. I believe once one has and is faithful to the measure of the Holy Spirit he is given, the H/S will provide all the interaction and 'proof' any of us could ever truly need.

A method that provides proof only to those who don't require it is a pretty useless method.

Quote:Again All someone need do who does not already believe is to simply ask and keep asking for what is needed to A/S/K. When you do this know God is not going to send you an angel to sprinkle faith dust on your head while you sleep. Your life will most likly change in some way, that will place you in a position where your only way out is through devine help. Or that you will be bombarded so harshly by life that you will want mercy/help again.

It's like we're not even speaking the same language.

Quote:The harder your heart the more dramatic recovery your going to have to make inorder for you to truly credit God with getting you out of a hole.

As noted, you assume that our lack of belief is something we intentionally set up and fortify, when in reality, it is a consequence of how our brains are wired to interpret events. Not that I actually want to be a believer, but I can't be. The method you insist upon will never provide the quality of evidence necessary to change my mind and the standards it demands of evidence. Your mind is wired to apparently not be able to comprehend the idea that anybody's mind isn't just like yours. And I know I can safely speak for pretty much every atheist out there on this score...

Quote:I tell you all to A/S/K. Your Asking for the Holy Spirit. If/When you Get the Holy Spirit He will do exactly what needs to happen to establish your faith, and maintain it. If you simply remain faithful to what you have been given.

...and it will never register for you, no matter what we say.

Be honest and put aside the strength of your convictions for a moment: do you think you are capable of making the conscious decision to abandon your faith? Do you think that anything could ever convince you that you've got it all wrong?

(January 30, 2014 at 2:12 pm)rasetsu Wrote: Did you compare that to the number of times you were thinking of a problem and didn't receive an answer?

what makes you think I do not receive answers? How would it be possiable to be here and do what i do and not receive answers?

Quote:No you didn't. Because you're not smart enough to realize that counting the hits alone is a worthless procedure. That's confirmation bias, and you're showing exactly why it's not reliable.

Your right, it would be confirmation bias. And i will admit I put off ask certain question because I can see the answers comming in the way of a trial or a hardship. Outside of that, that is the primary reason i am here. i've run out of questions of my own, and I look to take yours to God. (the ones that have not been asked already 100 times)

Quote:You've counted the hits, but you didn't count the misses; that means you skewed the results to the positive, not because they in fact are positive, but purely as a side effect of your method of counting.

asked a bible based/God related question. One that hasn't been done to death and lets see what happens.
(none of the how many fingers am I hold up crap that you pulled earilier. ask a God based question.)

(January 30, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Drich Wrote: asked a bible based/God related question. One that hasn't been done to death and lets see what happens.
(none of the how many fingers am I hold up crap that you pulled earilier. ask a God based question.)

Am I thinking of God right now?

If the answer truly comes from God, you don't need to know the question's specifics. He knows.

If you need to know the specifics, then the answer is coming from you, and not from God.

As before, I'll be charitable. I'll even tell you that it's a question that someone like me might reasonably ask if they are genuinely interested in getting to know the God of the bible.

Enough hints. What is God's answer? And it better be specific, as vague flummery is the stuff of charlatans.

(January 30, 2014 at 2:21 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: I don't have the faith of a mustard seed. Now what?

just ask for it. Simply say: God i need a mustard seeds worth of faith. You don't even need that to ask for the faith of a mustard seed. all you need is the ablity to read and a want to have this faith.

Quote:Whether or not it can change my life has no bearing on whether or not there's any truth behind it. The power one's beliefs have over them is very powerful.

At this point in your journey belief has nothing to do with it. Your just following the bread crumbs.
Simply go where they lead you.

Quote:A method that provides proof only to those who don't require it is a pretty useless method.

It is the foolish things of this world God uses to confound the supposed 'wise and learned.'

Quote:As noted, you assume that our lack of belief is something we intentionally set up and fortify, when in reality, it is a consequence of how our brains are wired to interpret events. Not that I actually want to be a believer, but I can't be. The method you insist upon will never provide the quality of evidence necessary to change my mind and the standards it demands of evidence.

The 'methods' you use were created by men looking to intentionally distance themselves from God. The entire methodolgy is critically flawed. In that it is designed to always exclude God as a possiable answer to anything.

This is illustrated when one of you good people ask for proof, and i ask, what does 'proof' look like? No one has ever answered this in such away as to have something take away all doubt from everyone who subscribes to this method of thinking. Matter of fact none of you (except for a petition for a winning lottery ticket) has answered this question period. Why? Because your current belief system will NOT allow you consider God for anything. That my friends is a true confirmation bias.

Why? because this 'wiring' always allows for some explaination no matter how out there to be more plausable that the truth set before you.

This is the choice I see that most of you have made. You put your faith in a method of understanding the world around you, rather than God. over looking the fact that a 'faith in facts' is still an excercise in Faith. The same faith needed to A/S/K. It's just you taken the mustard seed God has given you and planted it the 'field of science.' If this is true then simply ask for another one.

Quote:Your mind is wired to apparently not be able to comprehend the idea that anybody's mind isn't just like yours. And I know I can safely speak for pretty much every atheist out there on this score...

Did you ever play any old school RPG? when ever you started you were usally given character points of some sort, and you could take these character points and personal the hero any way you like. You could distribute these points in catagories like strength, Health, Magic, depending on how you wanted to play the game. I see something simliar here with your 'mustard seed.' You have only been given mustard seed, and you put in the science catagory rather than the God catagory.. Not a big deal. Just get over your self enough to ask for another seed. If you can't just read this aloud and i'll help you:

"God give Me another Mustard seed."

then when you get it be faithful to it.

Quote:Be honest and put aside the strength of your convictions for a moment: do you think you are capable of making the conscious decision to abandon your faith? Do you think that anything could ever convince you that you've got it all wrong?

Faith is belief without evidence as so many of you have pointed out. If you have been actually reading what I have said, I am showing and telling you that I do not have faith. God has and continues to give me evidence on a daily basis. Which means what i have is not faith.

Just short of God personally showing me where and what i have wrong in the bible, I will NEVER be convinced otherwise.. In this regaurd I am a saul of tarsus.

I seen too much, Experience too much and been apart of too many miraclous things to not believe in God.

---

(January 30, 2014 at 2:31 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 30, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Drich Wrote: asked a bible based/God related question. One that hasn't been done to death and lets see what happens.
(none of the how many fingers am I hold up crap that you pulled earilier. ask a God based question.)

Am I thinking of God right now?

If the answer truly comes from God, you don't need to know the question's specifics. He knows.

If you need to know the specifics, then the answer is coming from you, and not from God.

As before, I'll be charitable. I'll even tell you that it's a question that someone like me might reasonably ask if they are genuinely interested in getting to know the God of the bible.

Enough hints. What is God's answer? And it better be specific, as vague flummery is the stuff of charlatans.

4 you are holding up 4 fingers.

(January 30, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Drich?' Wrote:

Quote:Did you compare that to the number of times you were thinking of a problem and didn't receive an answer?

what makes you think I do not receive answers? How would it be possiable to be here and do what i do and not receive answers?

Appearently you received no answer when you asked god about the proper spelling of "possible".

(January 30, 2014 at 2:52 pm)Drich Wrote: 4 you are holding up 4 fingers.

So, in other words, it isn't God answering, it's just you. Thought so.

Btw, telling someone you know doesn't have fingers that they're holding up 4 of them is even more stupid than your usual.

(January 30, 2014 at 3:00 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 30, 2014 at 2:52 pm)Drich Wrote: 4 you are holding up 4 fingers.

So, in other words, it isn't God answering, it's just you. Thought so.

Btw, telling someone you know doesn't have fingers that they're holding up 4 of them is even more stupid than your usual.

He may have never been to that part of the forum where we share some more details about ourselves...

From all this exchange between you guys and Drich... I can see one thing...
Drich does not understand the concept of "confirmation bias".... at least when applied to his A.S.K. method.
And you guys have spent... what?... 5 pages?... 10 pages?... multi-combo-threads... trying to explain it to him... even I've tried it!... He just does not get it.

So... let him keep talking about his flawed method... if we pay no mind, he may just go away...
I'd like to keep MrsTRish around, though...

(January 30, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Drich Wrote: Again All someone need do who does not already believe is to simply ask and keep asking for what is needed to A/S/K. When you do this know God is not going to send you an angel to sprinkle faith dust on your head while you sleep. Your life will most likly change in some way, that will place you in a position where your only way out is through devine help. Or that you will be bombarded so harshly by life that you will want mercy/help again.

I would think that there are not many scenarios a person would find himself in where the only way out is divine intervention. Would this be something that god maneuvered the person into, in order to convince him that the help could not have been anything but divine?