(March 4, 2014 at 2:34 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Natural selection is a non-human manifestation and thus amoral.

You fucking asked for an evolutionary reason why killing would be immoral, and I gave you one. Just because it doesn't conform to your airy, magic version of morality and instead applies to real things happening in the real world, doesn't mean it's amoral.

It means you've been so addled by your biblical bullshit that you no longer have an understanding of what morality is.

Quote:I don't mean wrong in the sense of being harmful to survival, I mean wrong in the sense of morality. Why is one animal killing another animal wrong?

Morality is about the welfare of thinking beings; if it's not, what's the point of it? Don't bother going to god on this, because you asked me for an atheist moral claim, and to inject god into morality automatically would have made your question dishonest and redundant.

Besides, in your worldview, are god's moral pronouncements nothing more than his opinions, detached from reality, or do they serve some purpose for the people that are supposed to obey them? If it's the former, why should anyone care about them? If it's the latter, then those real effects can be determined with or without a god.

Quote:Making an argument that God is immoral without a standard of morality is an irrational argument. What is your standard of morality apart from the Christian God?

The real world, and the effects that our actions have upon other thinking beings.

(March 5, 2014 at 4:32 am)Urizen Wrote:

(March 5, 2014 at 1:56 am)Bad Writer Wrote: :yawn:

The swine snorts, the fool sneers, the boring yawns.

Boring, tired platitudes make people yawn, not being boring, you moron.

The pig flies, the clown frowns, and the excellent is excellent.

See? I can say a whole lot of nothing as well. It's easy when you let your brain fall out.

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Quote:

(March 5, 2014 at 2:10 am)futilethewinds Wrote: Oh, so your religion is the right one because it's old and it says nice stuff? You do know that there are a bunch of other religions that are older and way more peaceful, right? Buddhism, for example.

[...snip...] Christianity gives man a key-idea that opposes these illusions, so that he can find the truth in himself. [snippity snip] Despite its methodological differences, the Buddhist vision actually reinforces the truth of Christianity; [snip, snap and away]

Great. Two falsities that uphold and maintain each other. That's the kind of stuff you can and will expect in fantasy world. It's like saying the Force maintains its balance by having a Light and Dark side. Buddy, both world religion and the Force from Star Wars, as far as we can tell, are utterly bogus, but at least the latter is more enjoyable.

You're new here, so you don't quite know how this all works. Merely saying that Christianity is true is not going to change anyone's mind, and constantly repeating yourself makes you look like a damn fool. You know what we like around these here parts? Demonstrable evidence. Please demonstrate that, first, there is a god, and after that you need to show that it is the Christian god. All this other stuff such as scripture and conversion can come afterwards.

(March 3, 2014 at 2:36 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: So Ford made cars. Machines that are not designed to kill, but can easily kill. Therefore everyone ever killed by a car has just recourse to Ford?

If Ford was an omniscient, omnipotent entity, yes, Ford is responsible.

Comparing your god to a car manufacturer is entirely invalid.

(March 5, 2014 at 11:12 am)Faith No More Wrote: Comparing your god to a car manufacturer is entirely invalid.

Comparing him to a used car salesman is probably more apt.

(March 5, 2014 at 4:32 am)Urizen Wrote: The truth is timeless. Belief and faith only prefigure the awakening of the truth in oneself. Belief is indirect and volitional; knowledge is direct and Intellective. But belief encourages an attitude of interiorisation, and culminates in the reflection of the Intellect upon itself. We can know the truth, because we are the truth. The truth is merely eclipsed by the vanities and worldly attachments of man. Christianity gives man a key-idea that opposes these illusions, so that he can find the truth in himself.
Buddhism is another interiorising religion. Despite its methodological differences, the Buddhist vision actually reinforces the truth of Christianity; it may not call it God, for its method is one of silence, yet it contains the reality of God in the form of Transcendence and Immanent Justice.

Vaguely defined terms and pseudo-intellectual bare assertions are not impressive.

Quote: The swine snorts, the fool sneers, the boring yawns.
....
The pig flies, the clown frowns,

But what does the fox say?

Tell me, Uri. Why is your god such a schmuck that he needs YOU to explain his meaning?

I suspect what we are getting is YOUR meaning and that ain't worth shit.

Deal with it.

(March 5, 2014 at 7:24 am)max-greece Wrote: Totally pointless argument for an atheist to take part in.

The theists we are arguing with hold 2 things as fundamental truths. The first is that there is a God and the second is that he is good. Nothing will apparently, ever change their minds. Any story, piece of evidence, anecdote, scientific proof what have you will fall on deaf ears.

I lol'd

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(March 5, 2014 at 11:12 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(March 3, 2014 at 2:36 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: So Ford made cars. Machines that are not designed to kill, but can easily kill. Therefore everyone ever killed by a car has just recourse to Ford?

If Ford was an omniscient, omnipotent entity, yes, Ford is responsible.

Comparing your god to a car manufacturer is entirely invalid.

You lost

fr0d0, your ability to add absolutely nothing to the table is lovely. Keep up the great work of developing non-answers and fluff!

Is your arse still hurting BWS? You can get cream for that you know.