(March 18, 2014 at 7:53 pm)Cinjin Wrote: I lost only one friend and admittedly, it was sad.
But what does the loss of that friend tell you? It tells me that worshiping a god is more important than following the example of that god. Now what does that tell you? It tells me that my friendship was always conditional and thus ... sadly, expendable.

You see the truth is, true friendship would go far beyond a belief structure and the proof of this is that even I, a vocal objector to religion, have many good friends who can serve their silly god and still call me friend.

Now I look back on the friend I lost and realize that his friendship towards me was never anything more than self-serving and upon that reflection, I feel happiness in the fact that I have left the darkness behind.

So, you both never caught back up again? What made u feel that the friendship was self serving, if I may ask? I'm just trying to process this last friend of mine ending our friendship. Her words were "I don't know you anymore."

I just want to stop hurting over it.

I can understand both of those without much added context -

I had some friends who seemed to hinge their concepts of "right and good" on stupid shit - like whether or not someone else's relationship lasted. When my ex and I split, there were several people who said things like "If you guys couldn't make it, who could?!" and got into weirdly depressed conversations with me about how the world sucks and they always thought we had an inspiring relationship...and I'm like, "who the fuck are you people?"

But when people do shit like that, they prove they don't know you very well to begin with - it's a superficial knowledge based on what THEY want to see in you, not what you actually are. I would hazard the guess that your friend never cared to look deeper, just as I would hazard a guess that Cin's friend only took what superficial things he needed to get by in his own life.

I've gotten rid of a lot of those people as I've grown up too - not because they were bad or thought ill of me, but because I don't have much time for people who aren't willing to fix themselves instead of using other people as models for how life should be lived. You know? You can be inspired by someone, but you can't live your life assuming they're the guiding light, or they're just going to let you down.

(March 18, 2014 at 10:54 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I can't help but wondered what glued us all together. Almost at times like the friendships just never happened at all.

I would think that their friendship was genuine, and that they are conflicted by what they have chosen to do, but they feel that there is no choice. It is one of the saddest ways in which religion harms people, by demanding that they put loyalty to an unconfirmed god ahead of anything and everything else. When a neighbor's dog tells David Berkowitz to kill people, society decides that he is insane. When an ancient book tells you to turn your back on a friend, society decides that you're a devout and good person who only wants what is best for your friend.

And that's just sick.

(March 19, 2014 at 8:24 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: I can understand both of those without much added context -

I had some friends who seemed to hinge their concepts of "right and good" on stupid shit - like whether or not someone else's relationship lasted. When my ex and I split, there were several people who said things like "If you guys couldn't make it, who could?!" and got into weirdly depressed conversations with me about how the world sucks and they always thought we had an inspiring relationship...and I'm like, "who the fuck are you people?"

But when people do shit like that, they prove they don't know you very well to begin with - it's a superficial knowledge based on what THEY want to see in you, not what you actually are. I would hazard the guess that your friend never cared to look deeper, just as I would hazard a guess that Cin's friend only took what superficial things he needed to get by in his own life.

I've gotten rid of a lot of those people as I've grown up too - not because they were bad or thought ill of me, but because I don't have much time for people who aren't willing to fix themselves instead of using other people as models for how life should be lived. You know? You can be inspired by someone, but you can't live your life assuming they're the guiding light, or they're just going to let you down.

This is so insightful. If you don't have a blog somewhere on the interwebz, you should. I value your advice as it just is straight and genuine. I agree with you here.

It reminds me of something someone said to me upon hearing that I don't follow Christianity anymore. "You were someone who seemed to have unshakeable faith."

I still think about that guy's comment and wonder if I really believed what I did with my whole heart or was fear a driver? I don't know.

I appreciate SO much your thoughts to all this.
:-)

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(March 19, 2014 at 8:30 am)Tonus Wrote:

(March 18, 2014 at 10:54 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I can't help but wondered what glued us all together. Almost at times like the friendships just never happened at all.

I would think that their friendship was genuine, and that they are conflicted by what they have chosen to do, but they feel that there is no choice. It is one of the saddest ways in which religion harms people, by demanding that they put loyalty to an unconfirmed god ahead of anything and everything else. When a neighbor's dog tells David Berkowitz to kill people, society decides that he is insane. When an ancient book tells you to turn your back on a friend, society decides that you're a devout and good person who only wants what is best for your friend.

And that's just sick.

Your post made me tear up. Because it is sick...and sad.
Really glad you shared your perspective.

(March 19, 2014 at 12:46 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: This is so insightful. If you don't have a blog somewhere on the interwebz, you should. I value your advice as it just is straight and genuine. I agree with you here.

The idea of me having a blog gives me such lulz because I could never keep up a journal or diary as a kid, or as a grown up. I have journals that detail ideas and research, but that's about it. I really only get my inspiration for pointing stuff out in conversation.

They think your entire purpose now is to bring them down. You are in cahoots with the devil. You've dropped what you know is true to live a life of sin and lost redemption. lol You're perverted, to them. This is all true. They "don't know you anymore"...awww... be happy.

I don't know whether I'm on the wrong side of the fence here or not. My last best friend that I had, I split up with her over religion. We had been watching TV, and I tried to illustrate a point using stories of women in the bible. She knew I spent a lot of time with atheists, so she jumped to the conclusion that I was making fun of her religion, Christianity. The more I plead innocence, the more she accused me of making atheist arguments. When I pointed out that I was a Hindu who loved her god very much, she said she couldn't acknowledge that because her god told her to have no other god before him. I felt so betrayed and hurt. I broke off the relationship the next day.

In some sense, it would have been nice to have been able to continue on as we had before that night, but that possibility was over and done. I realized I'd never feel safe with her again because of the vicious and relentless way she attacked me, so there was no "continuing on as we had before" — she had ended what we had as surely as if she had been the one who broke up with me. While it's somewhat true that we broke apart because of religion, the deeper truth is that I broke up with her because I could no longer trust her. Maybe our trust might have recovered, but given how she ignored my pleas of innocence that night, I was afraid she could turn on me at any moment, regardless of what I had to say in my own defense.

I kinda know that pain.

In my case the only person i lost cause of religion differences was actually "love of my life" I madly fell in love with a girl who was a Jehovah's Whitness. Religion was very important to her and She was very fundamental about it.
Even though i told her that there are solid evidence that shows her beliefs are very unlikely to be true, She didn't care. I guess i weren't more important to her than beliefs She held. Anyway we couldnt be together because She wanted to be only with another JW believer.

The weird thing is i kinda deal with things like that pretty fast. I don't know why... maybe i just don't care

I think the best thing to do is just surround yourself with good, positive people. We're gonna meet a lot of them in our life and we're gonna make a lot of new friends... maybe even better friends than we expect

I haven't actually lost any friends because of it, at least that I'm aware of, anyway. My mother and her sisters have been somewhat distant, however.

I've always viewed it this way: If they were truly your friends they would accept you for who you are. It may be hard at first, but it's their loss, not yours, and they're not worthy of you attention or thoughts.

(March 19, 2014 at 2:55 pm)rasetsu Wrote: I don't know whether I'm on the wrong side of the fence here or not. My last best friend that I had, I split up with her over religion. We had been watching TV, and I tried to illustrate a point using stories of women in the bible. She knew I spent a lot of time with atheists, so she jumped to the conclusion that I was making fun of her religion, Christianity. The more I plead innocence, the more she accused me of making atheist arguments. When I pointed out that I was a Hindu who loved her god very much, she said she couldn't acknowledge that because her god told her to have no other god before him. I felt so betrayed and hurt. I broke off the relationship the next day.

In some sense, it would have been nice to have been able to continue on as we had before that night, but that possibility was over and done. I realized I'd never feel safe with her again because of the vicious and relentless way she attacked me, so there was no "continuing on as we had before" — she had ended what we had as surely as if she had been the one who broke up with me. While it's somewhat true that we broke apart because of religion, the deeper truth is that I broke up with her because I could no longer trust her. Maybe our trust might have recovered, but given how she ignored my pleas of innocence that night, I was afraid she could turn on me at any moment, regardless of what I had to say in my own defense.

Can I say, this is probably at the heart of it. Trust. Sadly, my former friends didn't trust me, because they tend to only trust religious people. It's so birzarre, because I HAVE NOT CHANGED. I'm still the same person I always was, just no longer following any particular faith or religion.

Your story really wow, resonates with me. She was your best friend, do you ever think about her? Do you ever, I don't know, wish it was different? (not trying to pry, just asking)

Maybe all I have in my head right now are the good times with my former friends, and I just miss them.

(March 19, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Beccs Wrote: I haven't actually lost any friends because of it, at least that I'm aware of, anyway. My mother and her sisters have been somewhat distant, however.

I've always viewed it this way: If they were truly your friends they would accept you for who you are. It may be hard at first, but it's their loss, not yours, and they're not worthy of you attention or thoughts.

Yep, you're right. Doesn't make it hurt less, but you are right.