Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 15, 2024, 3:43 am
Atheist Forums › Community › Atheism v
Proving god with logic?

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
Proving god with logic?
Mister Agenda Offline Donators
Donator
*****
Religious Views: Rational skeptic
Posts: 10670
Threads: 15
Joined: September 9, 2011
Reputation: 119
#21
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:01 pm
I don't believe you've lead such a sheltered life as to never have heard anything dumber than that.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Find
Reply
Simon Moon Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 3634
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation: 47
#22
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:20 pm (This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm by Simon Moon.)
There are several so called 'logical arguments for the existence of a god'. They all fail.

The Cosmological Argument
The Ontological Argument
The Teleological Argument
TAG (this one is especially annoying)

Did I miss any?

None of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Find
Reply
xr34p3rx Away
Go read a book
**
Religious Views: anti-theist/Humanist/beginner Warlock
Posts: 228
Threads: 17
Joined: January 9, 2014
Reputation: 2
#23
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 4:20 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: There are several so called 'logical arguments for the existence of a god'. They all fail.

The Cosmological Argument
The Ontological Argument
The Teleological Argument
TAG (this one is especially annoying)

Did I miss any?

None of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.

i shall research them my friend thx for the list! Smile
xR34P3Rx
it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
Find
Reply
Simon Moon Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 3634
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation: 47
#24
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:31 pm (This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 4:33 pm by Simon Moon.)
(March 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm)xr34p3rx Wrote: i shall research them my friend thx for the list! Smile

Some of them, on first blush, seem to make sense. But with any level of scrutiny, they fail.

Some of them are quite convoluted (TAG for example), and take a certain patience to unravel, in order to see why they fail.

The number of theists that were convinced to became a theist by any of these arguments can be tallied on one hand. They are used to reinforce their already existing, faith based beliefs.

Ask the person that confronted you with one of these arguments if this is what convinced them to become a theist. If they say no, which I can guarantee they will, ask them why you should be convinced by it.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Find
Reply
tor Away
Extinct
Religious Views: None
Posts: 1309
Threads: 44
Joined: March 13, 2014
Reputation: 6
#25
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:34 pm
I love TAG. Logical games are fun.
Find
Reply
Modler Offline
Newbie
*
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 22
Threads: 2
Joined: March 21, 2014
Reputation: 0
#26
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:39 pm (This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm by Modler.)
(March 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(March 21, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Modler Wrote: Exactly! And that is just what makes syllogisms so unreliable. When you look at the two premises isolated from one another, they are absolutely true, but they are using two different understandings of the word "mammal", and the conclusion of a syllogism is completely blind to such linguistic inaccuracies.
That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet! If you use a the same term for two values then you have broken the form of the syllogism.
Off course you have.
But the question is; will anyone notice the fault in the premises?
The syllogism itself won't tell if you've made such a mistake - its conclusion is blind to eventual mistakes in the premises.

And that's just the point I was trying to make; syllogisms can't always be trusted, because they may produce false conclusions due to faults in the premises that may not be obvious.
Find
Reply
tor Away
Extinct
Religious Views: None
Posts: 1309
Threads: 44
Joined: March 13, 2014
Reputation: 6
#27
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 4:39 pm)Modler Wrote:
(March 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet! If you use a the same term for two values then you have broken the form of the syllogism.
Off course you have.
But the question is; will anyone notice the fault in the premises?
The syllogism itself won't tell if you've made such a mistake - its conclusion is blind to eventual mistakes in the premises.

And that was just the point I was trying to make; syllogisms can't always be trusted, because they may produce false conclusions due to faults in the premises that may not be obvious.
I always notice such faults and make sure my opponents correct themselves.
Find
Reply
Minimalist Offline Donators
Go Blow Jesus Out Your Ass
*****
Religious Views: Fuck It
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation: 259
#28
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 5:41 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 2:32 pm)xr34p3rx Wrote:
(March 21, 2014 at 1:58 pm)tor Wrote: All the proofs with logic come down to.
1. X can't exist without God.
2. X exists.
3. God exists.

X can be knowledge, universe, logic and so on.

well the way i see it now is that almost anything can be "proven" logically BUT that doesnt make it real.

Challenge point #1.

The trick with these assholes is to never give them an inch. Demand actual evidence that #1 is true.
Find
Reply
ThePinsir Offline
Cult of Arceus
***
Religious Views: I worship Princess Celestia
Posts: 560
Threads: 36
Joined: January 16, 2014
Reputation: 12
#29
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 5:43 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 5:41 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Challenge point #1.

The trick with these assholes is to never give them an inch. Demand actual evidence that #1 is true.

Will do from now on. It seems impossible, and kind of a dick move to take in a discussion/debate, but I love it Cool Shades
I'm a bitch, I'm a lover
I'm a goddess, I'm a mother
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint
I do not feel ashamed
Find
Reply
tor Away
Extinct
Religious Views: None
Posts: 1309
Threads: 44
Joined: March 13, 2014
Reputation: 6
#30
RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 5:45 pm
Here is how you stop theists at first false premise and prevent them from moving forward ROFLOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDmQINlntJ4
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Atheism v
Proving god with logic?

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  It's Darwin Day tomorrow - logic and reason demands merriment! Duty 7 953 February 13, 2022 at 10:21 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
Photo The atrocities of religiosity warrant our finest. Logic is not it Ghetto Sheldon 86 7990 October 5, 2021 at 8:41 pm
Last Post: Rahn127
  First order logic, set theory and God dr0n3 293 35817 December 11, 2018 at 11:35 am
Last Post: T0 Th3 M4X
Tongue Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic Cecelia 983 180580 June 6, 2018 at 2:11 pm
Last Post: Raven Orlock
  a challenge All atheists There is inevitably a Creator. Logic says that suni_muslim 65 16980 November 28, 2017 at 5:02 pm
Last Post: Fidel_Castronaut
  What is logic? Little Rik 278 64374 May 1, 2017 at 5:40 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  Proving God in 20 statements smfortune 211 29612 April 6, 2016 at 6:50 am
Last Post: Whateverist
  When Atheists Can't Think Episode 2: Proving Atheism False Heat 18 3809 December 22, 2015 at 12:42 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  What is your Opinion on Having Required Classes in Logic in Schools? Salacious B. Crumb 43 10204 August 4, 2015 at 12:01 am
Last Post: BitchinHitchins
  Logic vs Evidence dimaniac 34 13976 November 25, 2014 at 10:41 pm
Last Post: bennyboy



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)