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**Mister Agenda** · March 21, 2014 at 4:01 pm

I don't believe you've lead such a sheltered life as to never have heard anything dumber than that.

Simon Moon · (This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm by Simon Moon.)

There are several so called 'logical arguments for the existence of a god'. They all fail.

The Cosmological Argument
The Ontological Argument
The Teleological Argument
TAG (this one is especially annoying)

Did I miss any?

None of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.

xr34p3rx · March 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm

(March 21, 2014 at 4:20 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: There are several so called 'logical arguments for the existence of a god'. They all fail.

The Cosmological Argument
The Ontological Argument
The Teleological Argument
TAG (this one is especially annoying)

Did I miss any?

None of them hold up to scrutiny. They are all fallacious.

i shall research them my friend thx for the list! Smile

Simon Moon · (This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 4:33 pm by Simon Moon.)

(March 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm)xr34p3rx Wrote: i shall research them my friend thx for the list!

Some of them, on first blush, seem to make sense. But with any level of scrutiny, they fail.

Some of them are quite convoluted (TAG for example), and take a certain patience to unravel, in order to see why they fail.

The number of theists that were convinced to became a theist by any of these arguments can be tallied on one hand. They are used to reinforce their already existing, faith based beliefs.

Ask the person that confronted you with one of these arguments if this is what convinced them to become a theist. If they say no, which I can guarantee they will, ask them why you should be convinced by it.

~~tor~~ · March 21, 2014 at 4:34 pm

I love TAG. Logical games are fun.

Modler · (This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm by Modler.)

(March 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(March 21, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Modler Wrote: Exactly! And that is just what makes syllogisms so unreliable. When you look at the two premises isolated from one another, they are absolutely true, but they are using two different understandings of the word "mammal", and the conclusion of a syllogism is completely blind to such linguistic inaccuracies.
That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet! If you use a the same term for two values then you have broken the form of the syllogism.

Off course you have.
But the question is; will anyone notice the fault in the premises?
The syllogism itself won't tell if you've made such a mistake - its conclusion is blind to eventual mistakes in the premises.

And that's just the point I was trying to make; syllogisms can't always be trusted, because they may produce false conclusions due to faults in the premises that may not be obvious.

~~tor~~ · March 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm

(March 21, 2014 at 4:39 pm)Modler Wrote:
(March 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet! If you use a the same term for two values then you have broken the form of the syllogism.
Off course you have.
But the question is; will anyone notice the fault in the premises?
The syllogism itself won't tell if you've made such a mistake - its conclusion is blind to eventual mistakes in the premises.

And that was just the point I was trying to make; syllogisms can't always be trusted, because they may produce false conclusions due to faults in the premises that may not be obvious.

I always notice such faults and make sure my opponents correct themselves.

**Minimalist** · March 21, 2014 at 5:41 pm

(March 21, 2014 at 2:32 pm)xr34p3rx Wrote:
(March 21, 2014 at 1:58 pm)tor Wrote: All the proofs with logic come down to.
1. X can't exist without God.
2. X exists.
3. God exists.

X can be knowledge, universe, logic and so on.

well the way i see it now is that almost anything can be "proven" logically BUT that doesnt make it real.

Challenge point #1.

The trick with these assholes is to never give them an inch. Demand actual evidence that #1 is true.

ThePinsir · March 21, 2014 at 5:43 pm

(March 21, 2014 at 5:41 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Challenge point #1.

The trick with these assholes is to never give them an inch. Demand actual evidence that #1 is true.

Will do from now on. It seems impossible, and kind of a dick move to take in a discussion/debate, but I love it Cool Shades

~~tor~~ · March 21, 2014 at 5:45 pm

Here is how you stop theists at first false premise and prevent them from moving forward ROFLOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDmQINlntJ4

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