So just as we think we could make some progress on getting rid of the old religions, all this new age bullshit turns up. Things like you have a third eye, we ourselves are gods from atlantis before it sunk, scientology and all that crap. Maybe the human race is just inclined to believe in and be apart of something bigger than reality. I honestly don't think we will ever get rid of this trait.

Society in general has started to make a trend towards being more secular and less and less people are identifying as religious. Well, maybe not so much in 'Murica but most of Europe and the rest of the first world is going down the secular route. I don't see religions or cults dying any time soon but I do think there'll come a time in the future where people are educated well enough to understand that religions for the most part are completely pointless.

(April 8, 2014 at 8:39 am)Napoléon Wrote: Society in general has started to make a trend towards being more secular and less and less people are identifying as religious. Well, maybe not so much in 'Murica but most of Europe and the rest of the first world is going down the secular route. I don't see religions or cults dying any time soon but I do think there'll come a time in the future where people are educated well enough to understand that religions for the most part are completely pointless.

Yep, I live in england, and where I went to school, I think there was only about 100 religious students out of the 2000 there. I am as you say, talking more about america, it's worrying that the leading country of the world seems to not be able to shake old religion, and then we constantly hear over here about all these other batshit crazy new religions that are taking a hold of people in mass numbers over there. Mainly through celebrities endorsing them I would suppose.

(April 8, 2014 at 8:20 am)cromwell Wrote: So just as we think we could make some progress on getting rid of the old religions, all this new age bullshit turns up. Things like you have a third eye, we ourselves are gods from atlantis before it sunk, scientology and all that crap. Maybe the human race is just inclined to believe in and be apart of something bigger than reality. I honestly don't think we will ever get rid of this trait.

Humans do have the ability to accept information (whatever the source) without evidence, if we did not then when our ancestors were told (or shown) 'don't eat the red berries, they will kill you' they would have died off from seeking to discover the truth of the matter first-hand.

There are good evolutionary reasons for having the ability to take some information as it is given to be truthful without the need for supporting information. (Just ask any parent how much they rely on that particular trait). This mechanism has not vanished, it is still part of our psychology and can be accessed.

I'm not suggesting for a second it's that simple, it's not, but it gives us some idea that there are likely to be evolved mechanisms behind the behaviour that was most probably useful for our survival once upon a time.

The likelihood is we will never rid ourselves of these tendencies, there will always be something like religion to plug the psychological gaps and prevent us from falling into delirium.

MM

(April 8, 2014 at 8:39 am)Napoléon Wrote: Society in general has started to make a trend towards being more secular and less and less people are identifying as religious. Well, maybe not so much in 'Murica but most of Europe and the rest of the first world is going down the secular route.

How are you defining secularism? This is the About Us page of the National Secular Society which is a UK organisation.

What Is Secularism?

Quote:Religious Freedom
Secularism seeks to defend the absolute freedom of religious and other belief, and protect the right to manifest religious belief insofar as it does not impinge disproportionately on the rights and freedoms of others. Secularism ensures that the right of individuals to freedom of religion is always balanced by the right to be free from religion.

and

Quote:Secularism is not atheism
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. Secularism simply provides a framework for a democratic society. Atheists have an obvious interest in supporting secularism, but secularism itself does not seek to challenge the tenets of any particular religion or belief, neither does it seek to impose atheism on anyone.

Secularism is simply a framework for ensuring equality throughout society – in politics, education, the law and elsewhere, for believers and non-believers alike.

People can still be religious while living in a secular society.

(April 8, 2014 at 8:39 am)Napoléon Wrote: I don't see religions or cults dying any time soon but I do think there'll come a time in the future where people are educated well enough to understand that religions for the most part are completely pointless.

How well educated? There are a lot of religious scientists around and not just in the US. For example, all but one of the Vatican Observatory staff are Jesuits and the one who isn't a Jesuit is still a Roman Catholic priest.

Vatican Observatory Personnel

(April 8, 2014 at 8:39 am)Napoléon Wrote: Society in general has started to make a trend towards being more secular and less and less people are identifying as religious. Well, maybe not so much in 'Murica but most of Europe and the rest of the first world is going down the secular route.

I'd agree that most of the rest of the developed world is going that route. I've heard that theism is growing in the undeveloped countries.

Also, America is becoming more secular; it's just behind Europe by a long shot and the opponents are supremely vocal about their "persecution".

(April 8, 2014 at 9:40 am)Confused Ape Wrote:

(April 8, 2014 at 8:39 am)Napoléon Wrote: Society in general has started to make a trend towards being more secular and less and less people are identifying as religious. Well, maybe not so much in 'Murica but most of Europe and the rest of the first world is going down the secular route.

How are you defining secularism? This is the About Us page of the National Secular Society which is a UK organisation.

What Is Secularism?

Quote:Religious Freedom
Secularism seeks to defend the absolute freedom of religious and other belief, and protect the right to manifest religious belief insofar as it does not impinge disproportionately on the rights and freedoms of others. Secularism ensures that the right of individuals to freedom of religion is always balanced by the right to be free from religion.

and

Quote:Secularism is not atheism
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. Secularism simply provides a framework for a democratic society. Atheists have an obvious interest in supporting secularism, but secularism itself does not seek to challenge the tenets of any particular religion or belief, neither does it seek to impose atheism on anyone.

Secularism is simply a framework for ensuring equality throughout society – in politics, education, the law and elsewhere, for believers and non-believers alike.

People can still be religious while living in a secular society.

(April 8, 2014 at 8:39 am)Napoléon Wrote: I don't see religions or cults dying any time soon but I do think there'll come a time in the future where people are educated well enough to understand that religions for the most part are completely pointless.

How well educated? There are a lot of religious scientists around and not just in the US. For example, all but one of the Vatican Observatory staff are Jesuits and the one who isn't a Jesuit is still a Roman Catholic priest.

Vatican Observatory Personnel

Well in my view, that pretty much sums up british society, no one really cares what you believe in, as long as you don't bother others with your beliefs. We have a very different christian culture over here, where the christians as a majority don't really bother anyone with their religion and keep it to themselves. However, there is a growing problem with islam trying to push it's beliefs, but I guess that is a world wide islamic problem. It seems islam is now going through the same stages as the catholic church was in the it's inquisition years, and that is why at this moment in time, Islam is the greatest religious threat we have in our western world.

(April 8, 2014 at 9:40 am)Confused Ape Wrote: Secularism is simply a framework for ensuring equality throughout society – in politics, education, the law and elsewhere, for believers and non-believers alike.

People can still be religious while living in a secular society.

Did I say otherwise?

My point is that secularism and good education will naturally encourage critical thinking and rational thought. I'll go out on a limb here and say that anyone who is religious clearly doesn't use their critical thinking skills well enough. That or they simply don't care about the validity of their chosen fairy tale. Yeah I'll probably get some religious person attack me and they'll believe they're doing critical thinking right, but they're just not.

Ofcourse people can still be religious in a secular society, but that's completely missing the point.

Quote:How well educated? There are a lot of religious scientists around and not just in the US. For example, all but one of the Vatican Observatory staff are Jesuits and the one who isn't a Jesuit is still a Roman Catholic priest.

Vatican Observatory Personnel

I think most scientists would identify themselves as 'agnostic'. I don't have any data for that and I can't be arsed looking up any studies on the matter but that's what I genuinely think. I'm pretty sure I've read articles and even from my own experience, the more well educated someone is, especially in terms of critical thinking, the more likely they are to be atheist or 'agnostic' (a term which in my opinion is just a pussy way of not committing to the other term). I'm open to seeing some evidence to the contrary though.

Even still, there are undoubtedly going to be exceptions. Just like your Vatican observatory. Is it really a surprise that Vatican observatory staff describe themselves as religious, when they work at the fucking Vatican?

(April 8, 2014 at 10:23 am)Napoléon Wrote: Is it really a surprise that Vatican observatory staff describe themselves as religious, when they work at the fucking Vatican?

Why would physicists and astronomers be Jesuits if they weren't religious? After all, the Vatican Observatory isn't the only observatory in the world?

As long as you do not blaspheme against the dragons you may continue.