(April 10, 2014 at 12:11 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(April 9, 2014 at 11:25 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Not sure what point you are trying to make?

I'm pointing out the stark contrast between the world of the Bible and the world we live in.

Read the Babble and you read about a world drenched in the supernatural. The god of the Babble is not a subtle character in the least. In the Old Testament, he routinely interacted with the other characters, even speaking face-to-face with Moses and giving a public speech to Judea. In the New Testament, you have not just Jesus but also people of faith able to heal and cast out demons, angels breaking people out of prison and booming voices from the sky.

Put down the Babble and look around. It's a natural universe, devoid of supernatural upheaval, governed by predictable laws and best understood by science and reason. The Christian god has retreated to become a subtle observer in events, barely able to muster the power to occasionally appear on a slice of toast. Christians who believe this god intervenes in human affairs can only point to natural occurrences like hurricanes or earthquakes, where divine intervention becomes indistinguishable from unfortunate turns of well-understood forces of nature.

The contrast between the dreamscape world of your scripture and the way the universe actually operates in reality becomes especially palpable when the apologists step forward to offer their best evidence for their beliefs. William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Habermas, et al, have no storehouse of holy relics like the magic handkerchiefs of Paul (see the Book of Acts of the Apostles 19:11-12). They can perform no miracles of healing as repeatable demonstrations performed under medical peer review (see Mark 16:17-18). There are no angels that can be summoned to strike dead the world's tyrants (Acts 12:23), nor can your god make a speech to the public (Judges 1:1-3) or shout from the sky (Matt 3:17).

They can offer no evidence of any kind even though the Bible depicts a realm in which this kind of evidence should be expected.

Instead, the apologists are limited to the arguments that should be expected in a natural universe. They bring to the table abstract philosophy, mental constructs and verbal slight-of-hand. Entire textbooks on logical fallacies could be penned using their arguments as examples but letting that go, one can't help but notice that when the reverberations of the noise they make fade away, there is not one shred of evidence, a single repeatable demonstration or the aid of any supernatural agent to lend credence to their fanciful claims. The only magic I ever see is the razzle-dazzle of the apologist showman.

It's a natural world we live in, my friend, and if there is some sort of god out there, It clearly has no interest in being worshiped by the microscopic beings on a pale blue dot that only came into existence in the relatively recent history of the universe.

God has dealt with Israel and the world in general differently at different times. The 400 year span between Testaments right before Christ came He chose to be silent, no miracles, no prophets. How old is the USA? Now, I know of several people who claim to have received a miracle from God. I believe God is currently working miracles today. Now if you were to get saved that would be a miracle in itself.

(April 10, 2014 at 8:06 am)Revelation777 Wrote: God has dealt with Israel and the world in general differently at different times. The 400 year span between Testaments right before Christ came He chose to be silent, no miracles, no prophets. How old is the USA? Now, I know of several people who claim to have received a miracle from God. I believe God is currently working miracles today. Now if you were to get saved that would be a miracle in itself.

What's a miracle? Is it just something that's unlikely?

(April 9, 2014 at 11:28 pm)Godlesspanther Wrote:

(April 9, 2014 at 11:18 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: We are in a season of Grace and Faith. God first sent prophets, then His Son, now His church. Soon He returns. Time is short, please repent.

What makes you think that anyone should take this idiotic bullshit seriously? We shouldn't.

I personally have nothing to repent for. Every time some christian arsehole tells us to repent, he or she is actually telling us we're bad people and implying that the christian is better than us.

It's a lie and an insult ... and a damn stupid way to try to recruit followers.

(April 10, 2014 at 9:33 am)Thackerie Wrote: Every time some christian arsehole tells us to repent, he or she is actually telling us we're bad people and implying that the christian is better than us.

It's actually "step 3" in the cliched process that I have the most problem with.

As I understand it, the pitch often goes like this:

Quote:Step 1: Admit you are a sinner.

If by "sin" you mean that I'm not perfect or have done things in my life I regret, sure.

Quote:Step 2: Be willing to turn from sin or "repent"

I already believe this. I try to face my mistakes honestly and learn from them, resolving to be better in the future.

Quote:Step 3: Believe that God sent himself down to earth to become his own son so that he could make everything OK by dying on a cross as this was the only means to convince himself to forgive all of us for being the sinful beings that we are because an ancestor of ours that was made from a rib ate a magic fruit after speaking with a talking snake.
Believe that this blood sacrifice makes all your mistakes OK because... well, that part is never explained.

You had me. You had me. You lost me.

(April 10, 2014 at 8:42 am)Esquilax Wrote: What's a miracle? Is it just something that's unlikely?

Technically, a miracle is defined in the dictionary as:

Quote:an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

Such a term ought to be reserved for what can't possibly be explained by natural phenomena and thus allows only for attribution to divine intervention. However, Islamo-Christians need to water that word down to match the evidently diminished power of their god these days, so that surviving a flash flood, beating cancer into remission or seeing Jesus on a piece of toast will qualify.

(April 10, 2014 at 8:06 am)Revelation777 Wrote: How old is the USA?

About 1,700 years younger than the length of time that's passed from when all the claimed divine activity suddenly ceased.

[snark]
There really is a Force, I tell you. Jedi of sufficient faith can move objects with their minds. It says so in the sacred scriptures about what happened "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away". Sure, nobody can seem to be able do that today but that doesn't mean the Force isn't there or the stories are all bunk. We just have to believe or we will fall into The Dark Side. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. What do you mean, "argument from ignorance"? What do you mean, "special pleading"?
[/snark]

(April 9, 2014 at 11:25 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: most of the prophesies are yet to come

And they will remain so. You do understand that generations of men have been certain that they would see the second coming of Christ, only to grow old and die without having that expectation fulfilled? The end of all things has been "very close" for centuries. But I bet you're pretty sure that this time, it's legit.

(April 10, 2014 at 8:06 am)Revelation777 Wrote: God has dealt with Israel and the world in general differently at different times. The 400 year span between Testaments right before Christ came He chose to be silent, no miracles, no prophets. How old is the USA? Now, I know of several people who claim to have received a miracle from God. I believe God is currently working miracles today. Now if you were to get saved that would be a miracle in itself.

Here is the problem. What you believe, and no matter how strongly you believe is, doesn't mean shit. Real world testable evidence is what counts. Gullibility is not an admirable trait.

If I am to accept what you say, I would have to do so without any real evidence to back it up. I would have to be gullible and stupid.

I disagree with the basic concept that accepting bullshit without question is admirable -- it is not. Question what people say. Be on guard -- do not fall for a sleazy con-man like you, Rev.

Quote: I believe God is currently working miracles today.

The nonsense you believe is the problem...not the solution.

(April 9, 2014 at 11:12 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 8, 2014 at 2:07 am)Cinjin Wrote: Again - that phrase is taken from the same book that makes the claim of his deity.
With that sort of logic, every religion can argue that they have proof of their deity simply by drawing attention to the witnesses they wrote in for themselves.

You mentioned that we can call you a 'Fool for Christ.' Sadly for you the word fool has a certain happy-go-lucky foppishness to it. The word is rather endearing in a way ... as if to say, "yes he's the town fool, but he's our beloved town fool." You sir are no such thing. You sir, are a blithering idiot.

Can we call you a blithering idiot for christ instead?

As you wish

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(April 8, 2014 at 2:11 am)Jiggerj Wrote: And thank god for Jesus and his disciples! Without them there'd still be war today. And cruelty to animals and children. And starvation in impoverished nations. And greed and tyranny and murder and rape and intolerance and honor killings and wife beatings and pedophiles and...?

How did they change the world again?

In the near future, when God removes His true believers from the world, you will then see how civil things become.

Can we speed this up a little?

Sounds like peace on earth will be achieved by default post rapture.

On the other hand, this "time of trial and tribulation" has been "just around the corner" for 2000 years.